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Author Topic: Dannyboy Armed with Fish Engages in Amoral Moralism  (Read 4749 times)

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Anthony Horvath

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Re: Dannyboy Armed with Fish Engages in Amoral Moralism
« Reply #60 on: March 07, 2009, 07:11:40 PM »

"So if you like porno and you imagine a god that desires the same thing then you haven't missed the mark."

This confused me.

Zag is right about sin being 'missing the mark.'  The word comes from the Greek, amarteo (as I recall) which means exactly that.  It means 'falling short' and as such can mean falling short of God's standards or even one's own...
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stathei

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Re: Dannyboy Armed with Fish Engages in Amoral Moralism
« Reply #61 on: March 08, 2009, 02:47:49 PM »

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And even the willful effort to keep God at bay and out of your life:  wiped clean.

Wow, you really are twisted, SJ.
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Anthony Horvath

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Re: Dannyboy Armed with Fish Engages in Amoral Moralism
« Reply #62 on: March 08, 2009, 03:58:13 PM »

That is a matter of perspective, of course.  It is a mistake for you to credit this to me, though.   This is just out of the New Testament.  I don't see what the problem is, anyway.  Do you think that your willful and deliberate effort to keep God out of your life should not be forgiven by God?  God should forgive your angry outbursts and sexual addiction but not your willful unbelief?

That strikes me as twisted.

Or is your problem that 'unbelief' would be listed along with all the other things?  As I said, it would be difficult to generate a list of things for you without appealing in places to Revelation.  You asked for specificity and I gave them to you.

Calling people 'twisted' after they answer your questions is precisely the sort of behavior that 'unbelief' generates. 
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stathei

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Re: Dannyboy Armed with Fish Engages in Amoral Moralism
« Reply #63 on: March 08, 2009, 06:23:40 PM »

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God should forgive your angry outbursts and sexual addiction but not your willful unbelief?

 [takeone

I seem to have touched a nerve with my "twisted" remark.

Who is the pervert here - the one who simpy enjoys looking at pictures of naked women, or the one who labels that a "sex addiction" and claims that God had his only son tortured and gruesomely murdered so I could enjoy it - even though God designed me to enjoy it in the first place? Like I said, twisted.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2009, 07:13:26 PM by stathei »
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Anthony Horvath

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Re: Dannyboy Armed with Fish Engages in Amoral Moralism
« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2009, 07:43:18 PM »

"I seem to have touched a nerve with my "twisted" remark."

Not at all.  I'm just illustrating the principle.  Well, pointing out how you are illustrating the principle.  ;)

"Who is the pervert here - the one who simpy enjoys looking at pictures of naked women,"

I have been pretty clear that I have no idea what your 'sins' are.  I used 'sexual addiction' merely as contrast to 'unbelief' not because I thought you had an addiction but because when most atheists think of 'morality' they only think of terms of sex.

You will recall that I tried to keep the matter in the realm of things that you yourself knew were wrong and abstaining from things that I believe God has indicated was wrong.  The reason for that I think should be obvious now.  Instead of you coming to terms with your own admitted imperfection you are quibbling over the things that the Bible would add on the matter.

"or the one who labels that a "sex addiction" and claims that God had his only son tortured and gruesomely murdered so I could enjoy it"

What are you talking about?  God didn't allow his son to be tortured so you could enjoy porn.  He allowed it so that you wouldn't rot in hell because of it.  Big difference.

"even though God designed me to enjoy it in the first place?"

No argument there.  The Bible doesn't say sex is bad only sex outside of a proper context.  The forgiveness comes from sexuality outside that context.  You're more than welcome to have as much sex as you like within that context.  ;)

So, despite trying to avoid the bait and switch that you've nonetheless managed to employ, would you care to explain why it was so important that I had to give some specific examples?  What was it not enough just to leave it between you and your own conscience since you know full well that you are not perfect?
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stathei

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Re: Dannyboy Armed with Fish Engages in Amoral Moralism
« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2009, 05:38:52 AM »

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God didn't allow his son to be tortured so you could enjoy porn.  He allowed it so that you wouldn't rot in hell because of it.  Big difference.

Not so big, actually.

Quote
would you care to explain why it was so important that I had to give some specific examples?

To illustrate the absurdity of Jesus dying for my sins, when the worst I can think of is a fondness for ladies.

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you know full well that you are not perfect

I am not perfect, just human.
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Anthony Horvath

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Re: Dannyboy Armed with Fish Engages in Amoral Moralism
« Reply #66 on: March 09, 2009, 07:21:11 AM »

"To illustrate the absurdity of Jesus dying for my sins, when the worst I can think of is a fondness for ladies."

Well, good thing we aren't saying that Jesus died only for your sins, then, right?  I trust if you survey human history you can think of far worse things done by people.  Then take all of these things and wrap them up into a one lump sum and then re-consider the question.

"I am not perfect, just human."

Why aren't you perfect?   What is it about being 'just human' that makes you imperfect?  Have you ever tried to be perfect?  How hard can it be?

Also, aren't you even a little curious as to where your standard of 'perfection' comes from?  If you insist that there is no objective moral code than there is of course no basis for declaring anything perfect or imperfect, but admitting that you are imperfect smuggles in the very thing you are denying.

The whole assessment of perfection requires something to measure yourself against.  Otherwise, it would be like agreeing that you were too short to go on an amusement park ride without having any notion of just how tall you had to be and going further and saying that there is no actual required height.  How then did you know you were too short?

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Zagzagel

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Re: Dannyboy Armed with Fish Engages in Amoral Moralism
« Reply #67 on: March 09, 2009, 03:19:44 PM »

heh.. I was the one who brought up the answer and sin thing connected with my "porno" answer concerning a thought in this thread - which confused sntj... yet Stat seems bent on somehow trying to convince snjt of something??    It seems that Stat understood me well enough though since his persistence in this area.  ;)  (<-- did you notice no question mark?)

Maybe I'm mumbling again.. no rhyme or reason right?  lol

Here is my follow up question to this whole thing... who can define what is sin?  Who on this earth has this authority?  And for what reasons?  I think this a simple enough question before we get into the more harder stuff.. like God.


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Zagzagel

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Re: Dannyboy Armed with Fish Engages in Amoral Moralism
« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2009, 04:34:21 PM »

I seem to have touched a nerve with my "twisted" remark.

Not with me.  But I said this already once before.. you want a marriage with sntj.. but I said it differently many moons ago.

There is no nerve to touch with me.  There is no "twisted".. only in your mind and others.

It's interesting, however, this discussion.

Stat.  I answered earlier that "sin" is missing the mark..  I think at this point you will, or should, at least, agree with this simple enough concept as given so far.  By the way, it's not just a bible concept either.
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Cheers.  :)  Be well.  Live better!
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