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Author Topic: If A Jesus Were Born In The U.S. Today? (Humour?)  (Read 4608 times)

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Anthony Horvath

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Re: If A Jesus Were Born In The U.S. Today? (Humour?)
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2007, 03:35:44 PM »

"This reminds me of when we were speaking of the appearances of new species, which you believe was a sudden event directed by The Lord, rather than the reality of evolution."

Actually, that's not really my position.  That's the position of the theistic evolutionist.  You've never given me the courtesy of explaining my position without mocking me throughout.

"I now ask you to speculate about the resurrection.   .... What exactly do you think you are claiming when you claim the resurrection to be reality?"

Sounds like fun.  Speculating, that is.  I'm getting set to run to the store.  Why don't you explain to me more about what you think is even meant by resurrection in contrast to resuscitation?  bbl.
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stathei

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Re: If A Jesus Were Born In The U.S. Today? (Humour?)
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2007, 05:51:48 PM »

Resuscitation is nothing to do with The Resurrection, except as a device to fog the issue by asking for definitions of irrelevent terms...
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Anthony Horvath

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Re: If A Jesus Were Born In The U.S. Today? (Humour?)
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2007, 07:35:25 PM »

Well you were describing a resuscitation... as if the man had been legitimately dead for 3 days but then God used his high-flutin CPR on him.  That's not the Christian view about the resurrection.  The dilemma I find myself in as I think about your question is two-fold... you haven't yet taken a position as to whether or not Christianity's supernaturalism is omni-flexible or not.  It would be nice to hear some sort of concession that Christianity does actually open itself up for falsification... even if its falsified in your mind shouldn't that at least make it a respectable position?

The other part of the dilemma is that here you are asking me a question which I think is a legitimate question, but since you're not likely to look at the sources which I draw my answer from, exactly what do we gain?
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stathei

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Re: If A Jesus Were Born In The U.S. Today? (Humour?)
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2007, 09:31:01 PM »

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It would be nice to hear some sort of concession that Christianity does actually open itself up for falsification.

I concede that Christianity is false.

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...as if the man had been legitimately dead for 3 days but then God used his high-flutin CPR on him

Enlighten me - he wasn't legitimately dead?
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Anthony Horvath

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Re: If A Jesus Were Born In The U.S. Today? (Humour?)
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2007, 09:35:11 PM »

So if its falsifiable then it is not unfalsifiable, right?
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Deep Thought

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Re: If A Jesus Were Born In The U.S. Today? (Humour?)
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2007, 09:37:56 PM »

So if its falsifiable then it is not unfalsifiable, right?

I sincerely hope that you didn't miss Stathei's sarcasm.
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Anthony Horvath

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Re: If A Jesus Were Born In The U.S. Today? (Humour?)
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2007, 09:47:22 PM »

That's a bit redundant, don't you think?  Did you fail to notice my concern in regards to why I should bother to reply him at all?  This was because Stathei produces nothing except sarcasm.  Have you not noticed?
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stathei

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Re: If A Jesus Were Born In The U.S. Today? (Humour?)
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2007, 09:05:46 AM »

Yeah, right, I'm soooo sarcastic......oops!

Christianity is unfalsifiable to those who choose to believe it. To those who don't choose to believe it (the vast majority of the world's population) it is simply false, so I assume that makes it falsifiable to them.

I do not think Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Scientology or belief that aliens anally proble humans can be objectively falsified. Otherwise we'd all be Atheists.
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Anthony Horvath

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Re: If A Jesus Were Born In The U.S. Today? (Humour?)
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2007, 09:13:05 AM »

And there we have it.

I will make a quick comment and point out that something doesn't become unfalsifiable merely because one chooses to believe it, else evolution would be unfalsifiable too.... hmmm...... hmmmm...... well, never mind that example.  Any worldview can be unfalsifiable if a person decides to treat it that way, and that includes atheism.

However, I'm unwilling to 'speculate' in the face of someone who has no intention to take it seriously even for the sake of argument (or for the sake of knowing what the argument is, and not merely a strawman).    How it is that you manage to think of a 'resurrection' (however you think of it) as fundamentally and absolutely impossible but not consider this as a mechanism then by which Christianity could be falsified AND YET insist Christianity is unfalsifiable, is beyond me.

I have trouble believing that in this world that a person can have mutually contradictory accusations at play at the same time.... "Christianity is Unfalsifiable and Christianity is Falsified"  but well, experience demands that I do.  Ah well.
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stathei

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Re: If A Jesus Were Born In The U.S. Today? (Humour?)
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2007, 11:31:25 AM »

I am, actually, prepared to speculate with you on the mechanics of the resurrection. SJ, it is amazing to me how someone as dismissive, sarcastic, patronizing and rude as you have shown yourself to be can be so upset when treated in the same fashion. You even use it as an excuse to avoid my questions when I'm being perfectly polite! Transparent, SJ, just like your little "Atheist trap" you seem to be so proud of in this thread...

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Deep Thought

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Re: If A Jesus Were Born In The U.S. Today? (Humour?)
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2007, 11:57:34 AM »

That's a bit redundant, don't you think?  Did you fail to notice my concern in regards to why I should bother to reply him at all?  This was because Stathei produces nothing except sarcasm.  Have you not noticed?

...Which is why I hoped that you didn't misunderstand him. Because you shouldn't.

I couldn't get any read on the attitude behind that statement--it was too brief and it didn't seem quite in tune with what Stathei said. *shrug* Call it the curse of online communication.
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Dicoll

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Re: If A Jesus Were Born In The U.S. Today? (Humour?)
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2007, 09:40:03 AM »

Like I said, if he (Dicoll) merely believed the evidence to be weak, I'd be fine with that.
My exact words were:
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Anthony Horvath

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Re: If A Jesus Were Born In The U.S. Today? (Humour?)
« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2007, 10:02:43 AM »

"My exact words were:
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Dicoll

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Re: If A Jesus Were Born In The U.S. Today? (Humour?)
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2007, 12:15:24 PM »

Those statements are agnostic about evidence.
They reflect a graduation in acceptability with a bias toward the non-acceptable.

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Your 'exact words' do not include references to evidence at all.
The reference was to your claim of a supernatural event. You hadn't offered any evidence for it with the exception of historic writings, based on multi-generational word-of-mouth transmission.

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One expects a certain amount of literacy in a medium that depends on it.  Leave it to an atheist to expect me to go beyond what he actually says.
It does not seem to matter what I write, you will read into it whatever you want anyway. I will however consult my ESL instructor about my lack of literacy.

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You, showing your own high standards of integrity, have ignored a dozen points that I have made.  The only person ignoring anything is you.  No one on this board writes longer and more detailed responses then (sic) I do.
I try to get to the essence when answering your post. In your long-windedness you are repeating yourself endlessly and it is necessary to isolate the nut of what you are saying, otherwise the volume of these post would get severely out of hand; for my level of patience anyway. So, I usually just pick some of your more outrageous statements and take it from there.

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Now, please stop yelling at me.  Your diatribes are making me cry.
There, there. Don't let the bad Atheist give so much grief.
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Anthony Horvath

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Re: If A Jesus Were Born In The U.S. Today? (Humour?)
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2007, 12:25:33 PM »

"The reference was to your claim of a supernatural event. You hadn't offered any evidence for it with the exception of historic writings,"

lol, well there is a reason for that.  You were arguing that supernatural explanations are completely open to the whims of the individual.  I am pointing out that this point is valid, but being valid that means that when Christianity agrees with the point and makes itself out to be based on an actual event in history, that is good.   So yea, I'm only offering evidence from history because that is one thing that sets Christianity apart.  If the resurrection did not happen as a fact of history than Christianity is not true.  Period.

"based on multi-generational word-of-mouth transmission."

This view does not fit the facts, I'm afraid.  See my thread about arguments for Jesus's existence.

"I try to get to the essence when answering your post."

Great, so when I do the same how about giving me a little slack.  For you to accuse me of ignoring a point because I don't speak directly to it when basically that's your whole approach borders on hypocrisy.  Hey, address the 'essence' all you like, but when others do it too don't throw around accusations that they are then 'ignoring things.'  Although, I haven't ignored anything.

"There, there. Don't let the bad Atheist give so much grief."

There you go again.  Blatant hostility.  More ad hominem.  Such vitriol in a public forum!
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