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Author Topic: Gentiles and the Jewish Messiah  (Read 4250 times)

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shalom

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Gentiles and the Jewish Messiah
« on: March 19, 2006, 06:34:10 AM »
Why do you think it is that Gentiles debate, argue, criticize others, even to the point of sinning, over who is/was/will be etc. the Jewish Messiah?

Shalom
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nojc4me

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Gentiles and the Jewish Messiah
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2006, 12:09:58 PM »
Because they don't have one of their own?
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"Wizard's First Rule" - Terry Goodkind (Check out the rest of the series, too.)
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shalom

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Gentiles and the Jewish Messiah
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2006, 01:46:01 PM »
Quote from: nojc4me
Because they don't have one of their own?


I don't think that answers the question but raises more questions.  Maybe the answer for them all will come by continuing to ask questions that gets to the core of why Christians are hung up about Israel.

Shalom
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Apollo5600

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Gentiles and the Jewish Messiah
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2006, 06:56:30 PM »
Salvation came from Israel, does that answer the question?
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Bdean

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Gentiles and the Jewish Messiah
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2006, 07:36:56 PM »
As a gentile Christian, it seems very obvious to me why gentile Christians focus upon who is the messiah.  The entire Christian faith is dependant upon whether or not Jesus is the promised messiah.  If he is not, then the Christian faith is worthless.  The Christian Scriptures continually reference and build upon the teachings of the Hebrew Scriptures and the idea that Jesus is the promised messiah of the Hebrew Scriptures.  The writer of the gospel of John for example states this as the entire reason for writing the book: "But these are written that you may[a] believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (20:31).
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shalom

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Gentiles and the Jewish Messiah
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2006, 05:42:02 AM »
Quote from: Bdean
As a gentile Christian, it seems very obvious to me why gentile Christians focus upon who is the messiah.  The entire Christian faith is dependant upon whether or not Jesus is the promised messiah.  If he is not, then the Christian faith is worthless.  The Christian Scriptures continually reference and build upon the teachings of the Hebrew Scriptures and the idea that Jesus is the promised messiah of the Hebrew Scriptures.  The writer of the gospel of John for example states this as the entire reason for writing the book: "But these are written that you may[a] believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (20:31).


Do you believe that the spiritual colonialism of Christianity, as manifested by replacement theology, or worse, the actual physical separation and sometimes liquidation of the Jew, is justified?

Shalom
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Bdean

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Gentiles and the Jewish Messiah
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2006, 09:02:16 AM »
Quote
Do you believe that the spiritual colonialism of Christianity, as manifested by replacement theology, or worse, the actual physical separation and sometimes liquidation of the Jew, is justified?


As I understand it, Jesus and the apostles were Jewish.  They did not perceive it to be spiritual colonialism, nor do I.  Please tell me more about what you mean by separation and liquidation of the Jews.  That language is new to me.

From the Christian perspective, a fundamental question is: Is Jesus the promised Messiah?  If the answer is yes, as I believe that it is, then I am compelled to respond accordingly.
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nojc4me

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Gentiles and the Jewish Messiah
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2006, 10:51:05 AM »
Please tell me more about what you mean by separation and liquidation of the Jews. That language is new to me.

The rules of the Gentiles for Jews often get worse and worse.
The steps are:
Proselytization
Conversion,
Forced conversion,
Pogrom,
Expulsion,
and
Extermination.

I once heard it idea expressed thus:

First, it's "You may not live among us as Jews."
Then, it's 'You may not live among us."
Finally, the Gentiles say to the Jews, "You may not live."

But that might not be what Shalom meant.
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Suggested Reading list:
"You Take jesus, I'll Take God" - Sam Levine
"The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" - Robert Heinlein
"Hope" - Aaron Zelman & L. Neil Smith
"The Probability Broach" - L. Neil Smith
"Wizard's First Rule" - Terry Goodkind (Check out the rest of the series, too.)
"The Constitution of the United States" - input from various American Statesmen (Read that as "Old, wealthy white men, now dead, who were often seen to be wearing wigs and hose in public.")

Zagzagel

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Gentiles and the Jewish Messiah
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2006, 11:04:49 PM »
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Why do you think it is that Gentiles debate, argue, criticize others, even to the point of sinning, over who is/was/will be etc. the Jewish Messiah?


There can be several reasons why "christian" Gentiles fuss about this.  One reason is the belief that Messiah has already come.  So the argument would be towards those who still await Messiah.

G
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Apollo5600

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Gentiles and the Jewish Messiah
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2006, 09:59:34 PM »
Strange that you two act as if the Messiah is for you alone, as if God did not say that through Abraham all nations would be blessed.
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Bdean

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Gentiles and the Jewish Messiah
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2006, 08:23:49 PM »
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Do you believe that the spiritual colonialism of Christianity, as manifested by replacement theology, or worse, the actual physical separation and sometimes liquidation of the Jew, is justified?


I believe that the message of the Christian Scriptures, including all references to Isreal, circumcision of the heart, Jesus as the lamb of God, Jesus as the Good Shepherd, Jesus as the Messiah of the Hebrew Scriptures, etc. is God's message.  As a Christian, I believe it is God's truth.  So, given my faith, it seems like I am being asked: "Do you believe that God's message is justified..."  If I believe that it is the Word of God, how can I speak against it?
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ULTRON

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Re: Gentiles and the Jewish Messiah
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2008, 08:02:35 AM »
I come from a Hindu family, and our Messiah was a cow.

Furthermore, I didn
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Zagzagel

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Re: Gentiles and the Jewish Messiah
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2008, 08:14:32 PM »
Why do you think it is that Gentiles debate, argue, criticize others, even to the point of sinning, over who is/was/will be etc. the Jewish Messiah?

Shalom

Hmmm... after a year of thinking about this I don't think that Gentiles argued enough to "sin" about this.  And.. Jews shouldn't think this is a "sin" at all for Gentiles either to think about.

This is sorta a taboo question.

I actually think this is taboo or a sin for you to ask such a question of us gentiles.
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