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Deep Thought

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Drizzt Do'Urden
« on: January 26, 2007, 09:04:34 AM »

Anyone read any of R.A. Salvatore's Forgotten Realms Drizzt Do'Urden stories, or played any videogames, etc., that include him? (For instance, Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and its sequel?)

I'm a big fan of the books. The only ones I haven't read are The Hunter's Blades trilogy, the two Sellswords books (I'm not counting Servant of the Shard in that, which I still consider part of Paths of Darkness--the series I'm currently reading--rather than The Sellswords), and the Cleric Quintet (not technically a Drizzt book, but Cadderly and co. DO come into the Drizzt stories later on).
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The Sasquatch

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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2007, 10:31:04 AM »

Drizzt Do'Urden? That sounds like one of those old Snoop-isms. You know, the kind of thing Snoop Doggy Dogg would say?

Fo shizzle!

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Deep Thought

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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2007, 03:35:23 PM »

Drizzt Do'Urden? That sounds like one of those old Snoop-isms. You know, the kind of thing Snoop Doggy Dogg would say?

Fo shizzle!



I just hope you're not pronouncing it "Drizzit" when you say that. That's a no-no. (As a matter of fact, Salvatore actually used that common mispronounciation as part of Sojourn's plot. And he's also stated that he often has to correct his editor for that very mistake.)

Drizzt is awesome. He's one of the most popular fantasy characters out there. (His companions are a little less popular--grunting barbarian Wulfgar endures a fair critical beating, and I bet those particular un-fans weren't all that happy when Wulfgar got his own book!--but I like them all almost as much as Drizzt.) Drizzt is a dark elf, a drow, who rebelled against his evil people's ways and deserted the underworld ("Underdark") city of Menzoberranzan to live on the surface and became a ranger under the tutilage of blind, elderly Montolio DeBruchee, called "Mooshie" for short (see The Dark Elf Trilogy for that lengthy tale).

Of course, a lot of people were irritated by the massive influx of Drizzt-imitators in the D&D games... so many that the drow race had to be watered down to compensate!

Salvatore's strongest point (I should add) is his ability to write a good action scene. When I read those scenes, I see them as clearly as I would a combat scene in Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, though they're rarely as outlandish.
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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2007, 09:21:36 AM »

Honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about (other than FFVII: Advent Children ... which was cool). Is this Drizzt thing a book or a game or a movie? Or is it all three?

You know what happens when I have no idea what you're talking about, right?

\all in good fun
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Deep Thought

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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2007, 12:32:03 PM »

Honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about (other than FFVII: Advent Children ... which was cool). Is this Drizzt thing a book or a game or a movie? Or is it all three?

You know what happens when I have no idea what you're talking about, right?

\all in good fun

A book series primarily. He also cameos in games related to the Forgotten Realms franchise (I'll get to that in a bit), such as the more recent Baldur's Gate titles. (His arch-nemesis, human assassin Artemis Entreri, is also an unlockable in Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II. All the more reason for me to buy that game...)

The Forgotten Realms series is a line of books by various authors, set in a Dungeons & Dragons-type world--the continent Faerun, of Abir-Toril (or some such). Drizzt Do'Urden is easily the most popular character in the Realms series, and one of the most popular characters in fantasy literature in general. He's been around since Salvatore wrote The Crystal Shard, which, to my knowledge, was only the second book set in the Realms.

The Realms books by R.A. Salvatore all connect, but the Cleric Quintet and Sellswords series don't include Drizzt at all, and the Paths of Darkness series includes two consecutive books--The Spine of the World and Servant of the Shard--that diverge from Drizzt's story entirely, focusing on developing other characters.

The Realms books written by Salvatore are:

The Icewind Dale Trilogy
- The Crystal Shard
- Streams of Silver
- The Halfling's Gem

The Dark Elf Trilogy
- Homeland
- Exile
- Sojourn

The Cleric Quintet
- Canticle
- In Sylvan Shadows
- Night Masks
- The Fallen Fortress
- The Chaos Curse

Legacy of the Drow
- The Legacy
- Starless Night
- Siege of Darkness
- Passage to Dawn

Paths of Darkness
- The Silent Blade
- The Spine of the World
- Servant of the Shard*
- Sea of Swords

The Hunter's Blades
- The Thousand Orcs
- The Lone Drow
- The Two Swords

The Sellswords
- Servant of the Shard*
- Promise of the Witch-King
- Road of the Patriarch

[*Note: Servant of the Shard was originally published as the third part of Paths of Darkness, and was later released as the first of The Sellswords. It is rightly attributed to both series, as it ties up much of what had gone on before in Paths of Darkness, and was correctly placed chronologically, but also is the rightful beginning of the story arc told in The Sellswords.]
« Last Edit: January 29, 2007, 04:41:17 PM by Deep Thought »
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Righteous Goy

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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2007, 08:09:11 AM »

I'm familiar with Drizzt. A non-evil, dark elf ranger who left the caves to flee the Drow who want to kill him because of his compassion, and to make a life for himself in the daylight - which he spent several days getting used to before he actually stepped into it.
The S.O. and I loved everything with Drizzt in it, (the S.O. loved the Kender for comic relief), but she came to realize that Salvatore will kill a character apparently at the drop of a boot, high, soft. Even well-established and well-loved ones. A dwarf (Ragnar?) died of heart attack (I think), a fighter (Caramon? Might have been Wulfgar) got buried under tons of rock (you'll forgive me, I've forgotten names - it's been a while.) Others (for instance, Kitiara and the skinny, unhealthy magic-user, whose name I forget) go to the dark side, turn evil and attack their former partners (not just bed-mates with whom they had some kind of disagreement, which I can sort of understand.) ;-)
There are other problems with Salvatore's books, particularly in game terms. I think I recall the party spent days in the marsh fighting trolls - and the party were using edged weapons, apparently not knowing (or they were unable to do anything about it) that trolls regenerate from damage caused by edged weapons, and so when they cut a troll in two, both parts would stand up and rejoin the fight. Humans and elves and dwarves get tired, but the trolls get more plentiful, yet the party keeps doing what they know, rather than trying something that might work. How's that believable? I don't think the magic-user ever tried fireball spells or magic missiles, but he might not have been there. Trolls don't regenerate from fire damage, but they might not have known that. I do because I've fought them before, including in the NES game, Pool of Radience, which I really like. I kept the game system just so I can re-play that one game.
I've also read The Cleric Quintet, and I think that's one of the ones where a (perhaps 'the') central character dies.
The early cpu games were too tough - my characters kept dying, so I gave up on those early on. They supposedly get harder as you go, and I never made out of the first game - so what's the point in spending money on a game series that's not fun?
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Deep Thought

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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2007, 04:22:44 PM »

I'm familiar with Drizzt. A non-evil, dark elf ranger who left the caves to flee the Drow who want to kill him because of his compassion, and to make a life for himself in the daylight - which he spent several days getting used to before he actually stepped into it.
The S.O. and I loved everything with Drizzt in it, (the S.O. loved the Kender for comic relief), but she came to realize that Salvatore will kill a character apparently at the drop of a boot, high, soft.

As long as it isn't a main character, because that'd get him in trouble with his bosses again. Remember Wulfgar? ^____^

 
Quote
Even well-established and well-loved ones. A dwarf (Ragnar?) died of heart attack (I think), a fighter (Caramon? Might have been Wulfgar) got buried under tons of rock (you'll forgive me, I've forgotten names - it's been a while.)


Yup, that was Wulfgar. But, mostly owing to a rather loud argument with the Wizards people and the threat of giving Drizzt to other authors, Salvatore brought Wulfgar back (and recovered nicely from the violation of his storytelling by turning the revival into a nice, long, and fairly interesting story arc.

Essentially, Wulfgar didn't actually die--the yochlol he was fighting carted him off to the Abyss, where he was held prisoner by the Spider Queen, Lolth, and later handed over to the demon Errtu for a little bit of assistance during a particularly chaotic time for the pantheon. When Errtu attempted revenge on Drizzt for his defeat in The Crystal Shard, the plan backfires, Wulfgar is freed after six years of barely-imaginable torment, and a whole story arc (told in The Silent Blade, The Spine of the World, and Sea of Swords) begins, in which Wulfgar, too caught up in memories of Errtu's tortures, breaks off from the group, wanders off to Luskan, and becomes a drunken tavern bouncer.

Quote
Others (for instance, Kitiara and the skinny, unhealthy magic-user, whose name I forget) go to the dark side, turn evil and attack their former partners (not just bed-mates with whom they had some kind of disagreement, which I can sort of understand.) ;-)
There are other problems with Salvatore's books, particularly in game terms. I think I recall the party spent days in the marsh fighting trolls - and the party were using edged weapons, apparently not knowing (or they were unable to do anything about it) that trolls regenerate from damage caused by edged weapons, and so when they cut a troll in two, both parts would stand up and rejoin the fight.

But that was the problem for them! In the end they had to use what fire they could scrape up to get rid of 'em, and what trolls they couldn't burn (water trolls, mostly), they simply left too mutilated to immediately regenerate, so that when they finally DID get back up, Drizzt & Co. were long gone. They used their basic melee talents, to be sure, but only to ensure that the trolls didn't rip their heads off.

Salvatore has never skimped on trolls' regeneration talents. They were doing that as early as The Crystal Shard. (Akar Kessel kept trolls as bodyguards. When Drizzt severed a limb, the limb kept fighting!)

 
Quote
Humans and elves and dwarves get tired, but the trolls get more plentiful, yet the party keeps doing what they know, rather than trying something that might work. How's that believable? I don't think the magic-user ever tried fireball spells or magic missiles, but he might not have been there.

There's no magic-user in Drizzt's basic party. Harkle Harpell and Robillard are some major good-guy magic users, but both are supporting characters and spend more time away from Drizzt than with him.

 
Quote
Trolls don't regenerate from fire damage, but they might not have known that.

They did. Moreover, they used it. *Thwacks Goy on the head* Go back and read Streams of Silver, NOW!

 
Quote
I do because I've fought them before, including in the NES game, Pool of Radience, which I really like. I kept the game system just so I can re-play that one game.
I've also read The Cleric Quintet, and I think that's one of the ones where a (perhaps 'the') central character dies.
The early cpu games were too tough - my characters kept dying, so I gave up on those early on. They supposedly get harder as you go, and I never made out of the first game - so what's the point in spending money on a game series that's not fun?

Heh heh heh. Impossibility is a blast for me...
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"Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."

Righteous Goy

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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2007, 08:28:21 PM »

They did. Moreover, they used it. *Thwacks Goy on the head* Go back and read Streams of Silver, NOW!

Ouch! And, My, but you're strict!
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(Rabbi Elijah Benamozegh, 1823-1901)

"Violence in self-defense is absolutely justifiable." Irv Rubin interview, Los Angeles Times, November 9, 1995

Let me strive every moment of my life, to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend all my assistance to those who need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
--- Doc Savage's Oath

Deep Thought

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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2007, 02:50:17 AM »

They did. Moreover, they used it. *Thwacks Goy on the head* Go back and read Streams of Silver, NOW!

Ouch! And, My, but you're strict!


Heh.

Well, I suppose I would remember these things, myself. I've been reading nothing but Drizzt back to back lately, so it's all really clear in my head, like I've been reading one loooooong novel (and it is essentially that, as nearly everything that happens in these books has some strong connection to past ones, so it's more like one continuing legend than a bunch of little story arcs).

I haven't read The Cleric Quintet, but I do know that Cadderly Bonaduce, who is *the* central character of that series, is alive and well, for he makes fairly important cameos in Passage to Dawn and Servant of the Shard; it is Cadderly who deduces the means by which Crenshinibon, the crystal shard, can be destroyed, Cadderly who charges Drizzt with that task, and Cadderly (along with monk wife Danica their two dwarven incarnations of comic relief, Ivan and Pikel Bouldershoulder) who helps to see it through when Artemis Entreri and Jarlaxle Baenre take up the task themselves (for no better reason than because Entreri is repulsed by the idea of the thing becoming his manipulative master).

On the subject of trolls, I've fought them, too. In Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II, you occasionally come across trolls--twice in an optional area, once in a mandatory wilderness ambush, and maybe a few other times on top of that. Being a Dark Elf Monk at the time, I had no fire or acid attacks, so all I could do was wail away at them with my fists until they fell over, and then run like crazy before they healed enough to get back up. Once I managed to enchant an acidic, wounding halberd and a flaming crossbow, trolls fell before me by the score--I even made a point to return to those areas where I'd left trolls still living, so I could finish the reeking things off and claim any experience and treasure it'd get me.

All the while I was wishing that I could play as DA1's sorceress or arcane archer classes. Burning Hands and Fire Arrows would have been so useful, and Melf's Acid Arrow would have been good to have, too... but I wasn't playing as the Moon Elf Necromancer, either, so that was out.
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TheDoctor

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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2007, 05:59:41 PM »

Reading all this makes me really miss playing AD&D.
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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2007, 12:08:41 AM »

Reading all this makes me really miss playing AD&D.

I might miss it, too, but my current Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn game is the only real D&D game I've ever played (BG2 goes by 2nd edition rules, and if you set the difficulty to "Core Rules"--one rung above Normal and one rung below Hard--it plays the game by the book). I've never had a chance to play the actual pen & paper game, mainly because I have no one to play it with. I have two starter boxes--second edition and third edition--collecting dust in my closet. We've tried playing the third edition once, but I don't count that, the attempt was so pathetic...

It's just D&D these days. The third edition, I think, has dropped the "Advanced" from the title. At least, I haven't seen any reference to "AD&D" since 2nd Edition. The spirit and soul of AD&D is there still, I suppose, but it's just "Dungeons & Dragons" now.
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"Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."

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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2007, 09:51:11 AM »

Yup, I was a hard-core 2nd edition player.  I refuse to even pick up any of the 3rd edition stuff, though, because they've totally changed the game.
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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2007, 11:27:21 AM »

I played AD&D 1st Ed. I knew the rules fairly well, (still have all the books except my "Deities and Demigods" [Brittish version] which somehow got borrowed and was never returned), and DM'd a few games, but I'm really not that good at leading or supervising. First time I played by second ed. rules, I got killed in a light-hearted game designed for fun, not hack-and-slash. I was playing a cleric of Thor, and the DM asked what aspect of Thor I was focusing on, and I said "as a god of war." I didn't know I wouldn't have access to ANY healing spells. I got killed by a pie in the face that took away one hit point, which was all I had. I went unconscious, and my "teammates" let me drown in a shallow puddle of water and took all my stuff off my corpse. I was told later I should have answered, "EVERY aspect."
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Mankind cannot rise to the essential principles on which society must rest unless it meets with Israel. And Israel cannot fathom the depths of its own Tradition unless it meets with mankind.
(Rabbi Elijah Benamozegh, 1823-1901)

"Violence in self-defense is absolutely justifiable." Irv Rubin interview, Los Angeles Times, November 9, 1995

Let me strive every moment of my life, to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend all my assistance to those who need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
--- Doc Savage's Oath

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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2007, 02:07:49 PM »

I played AD&D 1st Ed. I knew the rules fairly well, (still have all the books except my "Deities and Demigods" [Brittish version] which somehow got borrowed and was never returned), and DM'd a few games, but I'm really not that good at leading or supervising. First time I played by second ed. rules, I got killed in a light-hearted game designed for fun, not hack-and-slash. I was playing a cleric of Thor, and the DM asked what aspect of Thor I was focusing on, and I said "as a god of war." I didn't know I wouldn't have access to ANY healing spells. I got killed by a pie in the face that took away one hit point, which was all I had. I went unconscious, and my "teammates" let me drown in a shallow puddle of water and took all my stuff off my corpse. I was told later I should have answered, "EVERY aspect."

Nice party unity there.  I'm not all that familiar with clerics.  I always played elven rangers and mages.
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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2007, 12:02:30 AM »

Yup, I was a hard-core 2nd edition player.  I refuse to even pick up any of the 3rd edition stuff, though, because they've totally changed the game.

How d'ya know it's not changed for the better?
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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2007, 08:30:33 AM »

Well, first problem is that 3rd edition has already been revised.  The latest version is 3.5.  I just plain can't afford to rebuy all of the books everytime they "upgrade" the rules.  The big thing for me, though, is the new rules aren't the unique AD&D rules.  THAC0 is gone, AC is gone.  D&D is just another d20 game, now.
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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2007, 09:48:29 PM »

I played clerics so I would know where the "cure light wound" spell was coming from, and they can turn undead; druids because they can change form three times per day, healing hp each time, and true neutrality is least likely to cause problems, as long as you remember to even things out later in the game session; paladines because they can turn undead, heal and cure disease, and will wear the best available armor, while the lawful-good alignment usually wasn't that hard to comply with; barbarians for the improved hit dice (d12 rather than d8); and magic users only above 5th level experience use, because they can out-right wipe out as many 1st-level fighters as they have skill levels, single-handed, with a sleep spell, a dagger and a few seconds of time, or later, with a fireball spell even without the dagger.
I avoided entry-level magic users because they are so weak in strength, limited weapon use availability, and have few hps due to the d4, and thieves because I wasn't good at being sneaky. I never wanted to play evil characters, even if the DM would allow players to have evil characters - the druid was as close as I would get.
I was convinced that my own alignment was lawful-neutral/neutral-good, leaning toward true neutral.
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Mankind cannot rise to the essential principles on which society must rest unless it meets with Israel. And Israel cannot fathom the depths of its own Tradition unless it meets with mankind.
(Rabbi Elijah Benamozegh, 1823-1901)

"Violence in self-defense is absolutely justifiable." Irv Rubin interview, Los Angeles Times, November 9, 1995

Let me strive every moment of my life, to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend all my assistance to those who need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
--- Doc Savage's Oath

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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2007, 08:04:37 PM »

I had a ridiculously powerful mage character once.  Admittedly, that campaign had a bit of the munchkin factor going for it, but, boy, was he fun to play.
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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2007, 10:50:23 AM »

I've heard of "Hack & Slash," and "Monty Haul," but what do you mean by "munchkin factor"?
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Mankind cannot rise to the essential principles on which society must rest unless it meets with Israel. And Israel cannot fathom the depths of its own Tradition unless it meets with mankind.
(Rabbi Elijah Benamozegh, 1823-1901)

"Violence in self-defense is absolutely justifiable." Irv Rubin interview, Los Angeles Times, November 9, 1995

Let me strive every moment of my life, to make myself better and better, to the best of my ability, that all may profit by it.
Let me think of the right and lend all my assistance to those who need it, with no regard for anything but justice.
Let me take what comes with a smile, without loss of courage.
Let me be considerate of my country, of my fellow citizens and my associates in everything I say and do.
Let me do right to all, and wrong no man.
--- Doc Savage's Oath

TheDoctor

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Re: Drizzt Do'Urden
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2007, 02:27:30 PM »

I've heard of "Hack & Slash," and "Monty Haul," but what do you mean by "munchkin factor"?

The DM wasn't out to kill us all and let us get away with things that he really shouldn't have.  For instance, my mage had an infinite spellbook that let him cast any spell that existed in the game world.
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Ban time travel NOW
"Okay, kid. Here's where it gets complicated." Amy Pond to Amelia Pond
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