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Author Topic: Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth"  (Read 1252 times)

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Ragnar

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Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth"
« on: September 22, 2005, 09:12:16 AM »

I just started reading Joseph Campbell's The Power of Myth, which is based on the popular PBS series of the same title. There are some very interesting ideas in here, and I was wondering what people thought of the following excerpts, or of any other part of the series or book:

"This is the first nation in the world that was ever established on the basis of reason instead of simply warfare. These were eighteenth-century deists, these gentlemen. Over here we read, "In God We Trust" (referring to the dollar bill). But that is not the god of the Bible. These men did not believe in a Fall. They did not think the mind of man was cut off from God. The mind of man, cleansed of secondary and merely temporal concerns, beholds with the radiance of a cleansed mirror a reflection of the rational mind of God. Reason puts you in touch with God. Consequently, for these men, there is no special revelation anywhere, and none is needed, because the mind of man cleared of its fallibilities is sufficiently capable of the knowledge of God. All people in the world are thus capable because all people in the world are capable of reason. "

"In the biblical tradition we have inherited, life is corrupt, and every natural impulse is sinful unless it has been circumcised or baptized. The serpent was the one who brought sin into the world. And the woman was the one who handed the apple to man. This identification of the woman with sin, of the serpent with sin, and thus of life with sin, is the twist that has been given to the whole story in the biblical myth and doctrine of the Fall."

"The idea in the biblical tradition of the Fall is that nature as we know it is corrupt, sex in itself is corrupt, and the female as the epitome of sex is a corrupter. Why was the knowledge of good and evil forbidden to Adam and Eve? Without that knowledge, we'd all be a bunch of babies still in Eden, without any participation in life. Woman brings life into the world. Eve is the mother of this temporal world. Formerly you had a dreamtime paradise there in the Garden of Eden - no time, no birth, no death - no life. The serpent, who dies and is resurrected, shedding its skin and renewing its life, is the lord of the central tree, where time and eternity come together. He is the primary god, actually, in the Garden of Eden. Yahweh, the one who walks there in the cool of the evening, is just a visitor. The Garden is the serpent's place. It is an old, old story. We have Sumerian seals from as early as 3500 B.C. showing the serpent and the tree and the goddess, with the goddess giving the fruit of life to a visiting male. The old mythology of the goddess is right there."

"There is actually a historical explanation based on the coming of the Hebrews into Canaan and their subjugation of the people of Canaan. The principal divinity of the people of Canaan was the Goddess, and associated with the Goddess is the serpent. This is the symbol of the mystery of life. The male-god-oriented group rejected it. In other words, there is a historical rejection of the Mother Goddess implied in the story of the Garden of Eden."

"BILL MOYERS: Do you think there was such a place as the Garden of Eden?

CAMPBELL: Of course not. The Garden of Eden is a metaphor for that innocence that is innocent of time, innocent of opposites, and that is the prime center out of which consciousness then becomes aware of the changes."
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"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."  
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shalom

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Re: Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth"
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2005, 03:56:14 PM »

Quote from: Ragnar
I just started reading Joseph Campbell's The Power of Myth, which is based on the popular PBS series of the same title.


Do you have it reversed?  I thought the PBS series was in response to  J. Campbell's works.  He was a prolific writer, and was the leading authority in comparitive religion.   I watched the original series on PBS, and read a few of his works.  I find his ideas facinating and in a way comforting.

Is he right?  I'm not sure if that is the appropriate question.  Perhaps the question should be, "If J. Campbell is correct, would my obligations to humanity, and myself change?"



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Ragnar

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Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth"
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2005, 08:26:50 AM »

The series was based on his writings, but then they made a book which is essentially a transcript of the interviews conducted by Bill Moyers in the series.

I haven't read anything else of Campbell's yet, but I'm flying through this book so I might get more.

I agree with him up to a point. I do agree that humans for the most part need ritual in their lives, but I'm not sure if that's a good thing. I think perhaps the thing we should be doing today is to recognize that need, and attempt to move past it. Primitive cultures imagined deities, made sacrifices, and performed rituals in an effort to understand and cope with their environment. Today we should recognize that none of these things are necessary to live in harmony with the world and within yourself.
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[batman

"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."  
- Ayn Rand

"Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself makes you fearless."
- Lao Tzu

"Your side hates our side because you think we think you're stupid. Our side hates your side because we think you're stupid."
- Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip

Anthony Horvath

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Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth"
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2005, 10:54:27 AM »

I think for balance and the 'other side's' view.  Christians have been handling this topic for literally centuries.  Also, I wonder if you are aware of the position on this that Huxley takes in "A Brave New World."  He agrees with some of your views but disagrees about the human need for ritual.  Have you read it?
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cimics

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Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth"
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2005, 06:19:26 PM »

In many respects, Jesus was very much the anti-ritual.  Consider this passage in John 4 (NAS):

Quote
19The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet.

   20"Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship."

   21Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.

   22"You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

   23"But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

   24"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
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TheAtheistHeratic

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Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth"
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2005, 03:04:40 PM »

so jesus was an atheist lol
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"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." (Washington, D.C., April 1999) [2]

"One of the great achievements of science has been, if not to make it impossible for intelligent people to be religious, then at least to make it possible for them not to be religious. We should not retreat from this accomplishment." (ibid.)
[edit]

Both quotes of Steven Weinberg

cimics

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Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth"
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2005, 03:17:55 PM »

Um, no.  Being a-theist and being a-ritualist are not necessarily the same (although, obviously they can coincide).
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TheAtheistHeratic

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Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth"
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2005, 03:20:12 PM »

I know I was just using myth for logic. lol
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"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." (Washington, D.C., April 1999) [2]

"One of the great achievements of science has been, if not to make it impossible for intelligent people to be religious, then at least to make it possible for them not to be religious. We should not retreat from this accomplishment." (ibid.)
[edit]

Both quotes of Steven Weinberg

Ragnar

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Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth"
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2005, 12:32:58 PM »

Quote from: sntjohnny
I think for balance and the 'other side's' view.  Christians have been handling this topic for literally centuries.  Also, I wonder if you are aware of the position on this that Huxley takes in "A Brave New World."  He agrees with some of your views but disagrees about the human need for ritual.  Have you read it?


Yes, about eight years ago. I don't remember it well, but I do remember it made me think. I assumed he was more or less against the mechanization he perceived society heading towards, so I wasn't sure I agreed completely with that.

I don't remember him saying anything about ritual, specifically. What are you referring to? I should probably re-read this at some point. I have a clearer head now than I did at the time I read it. I'm sure I was actually stoned at some points while reading.  :oops:
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[batman

"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."  
- Ayn Rand

"Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself makes you fearless."
- Lao Tzu

"Your side hates our side because you think we think you're stupid. Our side hates your side because we think you're stupid."
- Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip

Anthony Horvath

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Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth"
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2005, 01:06:50 PM »

In the book, everyone is assigned positions that they are genetically bred to fill, and each position has its own course of drugs to keep them 'happy' in their positions.  Interestingly, the primary drug 'soma' accomplishes the same effect of being 'stoned' as you used it years ago.  :)  Well, in the book, drugs alone are not sufficient to keep people happy.  I don't think he explains why, but it is maintained that they can't seem to genetically engineer out of people their longing for the 'OTHER.'  So, in order to keep everyone in appropriate contentness (we might say to keep them in line), they have these animalistic, sensual, temple-like rituals to appease that part of their humanity.

IMO, a telling admission about the reality of what it means to be human.
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Ragnar

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Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth"
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2005, 01:37:39 PM »

Oh right, ritual orgies. Yeah, see, that's an idea I could really get behind  :twisted:
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[batman

"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."  
- Ayn Rand

"Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself makes you fearless."
- Lao Tzu

"Your side hates our side because you think we think you're stupid. Our side hates your side because we think you're stupid."
- Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip
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