Actually Apollos, you proved my point.  You have a need for proof when it comes to the Book of Mormon.  That is what I meant when I said that "Apollos' need for proof will kick in", not that I expected proof from you.

It is interesting that you would expect this kind of proof.  You quoted a scripture earlier, I bolded a particular verse...

Matthew 16:13-17,20, "13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" 14 And they said, "Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets." 15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 Simon Peter answered, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven....20 Then He warned the disciples that they should tell no one that He was the Christ'"

How would you interpret this?  As this verse states, Peter knew Jesus was the "Son of the Living God" not because Jesus was standing right in front of him, a person to touch and see.  Rather it was "My Father who is in heaven" revealed it to Peter.

You have a need for proof when it comes to the Book of Mormon.

Of course I do. I have read some of the BoM and done a fair bit of study on the BoM. I have found no reason to believe any of its claims.

As this verse states, Peter knew Jesus was the "Son of the Living God" not because Jesus was standing right in front of him, a person to touch and see. Rather it was "My Father who is in heaven" revealed it to Peter.

Yes, but this has to do with who Christ is and nothing to do with the BoM. The Bible stands on it's own claims, the BoM does not.

I don't want to intrude on this other discussion, but I find this quite disturbing:

Personally, I wouldn't care if Brigham Young said the Moon was made out of cheese (although Wallace and Gromit might). I have read many of his dicourses and found them very inspirational and prophetic. I believe he was/is a prophet of God and so do many other people, along with Joseph Smith and the like.

You do not deny the claim made by 8d8, which makes it seem like you know he claimed such, and yet you still think he was a prophet of God? This is just the tip of the iceberg for false claims and prophecies made by the supposed prophets of the LDS church.

Just to scratch the surface of what a prophet is...I don't think Prophet=Perfect Person nor that Perfect Person=Prophet. Moses killed an Egyptian, David slept with Bathsheba and had her husband killed, Paul denounced Christ and persecuted those who did believe (that is until an angel changed his ways), hopefully you get my meaning here. The Biblical prophets are far from stellar.

Well sure they sinned against God, but that is far different from claiming to speak for God yet obviously not doing so.

Perhaps, but I am sure there are a lot of people out there who think it is crazy to believe in Jesus Christ, yet we still do.

If you can prove that Jesus prophesied falsely, then you will have a point.

But why should it disturb you that I believe in it? My believing in it has nothing to do with you.

Well, yes it does. Mormons refer to themselves as Christians but believe very differently than historical orthodox Christianity. You think that you and all Mormons are the only Christians and the rest of us are not.

I am disturbed not so much by you believing in Mormonism, although that does disturb me, but that you would believe many of the absolutely strange and contradictory teachings of the LDS founders and yet still consider them prophets of God.

This seems to stem from a very serious lack of biblical and historical study done by Mormons. There also is a serious lack in critical thought concerning what history shows about Mormonism's founders and its teachings as compared with the Bible.

I am not meaning to be personal as I have also found this to be the case in my many talks with Mormons. Some outright deny certain things while others will acknowledge the points but quickly side step and move on to something else. It can be very difficult to get straight answers from Mormons, in my experience.

If you care so much that other people are believing in wrong doctrine you certainly aren't going to help them by attacking the things they believe in. It might be more useful to convince them of what you believe in.

How is it that I have attacked others' beliefs? I am simply trying to get to the heart of the issues. I have asked questions to which it was difficult to get straight answers. I have suggested discussion regarding the issues.

Don't you find it the least bit hypocritical that you claim I am bashing Mormons for saying that they aren't Christians while you don't believe that anyone else other than Mormons are Christians? At least I have been open about what I believe.

Which must include some restrictive rules on who can interpret the Bible. But that would go against scripture itself...James 1:5

If any of you lack bwisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Did that say "all men liberally"? Maybe you could let me in on the little secret as to what "all men" might include.

It depends on what you mean by "interpret". Anyone can read the Bible and "interpret," but understanding what is being said is something else. Regardless, let's look at that verse in context:

James 1:2-8, "2 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, 3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. 4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways."

The context of asking for wisdom is that of trials which test ones faith. If I remember correctly (I don't have the time) the Bible implies that one cannot fully understand the things of God unless they are a Christian; they can only understand enough to be saved (the gospel message).

I really am interested in dialogue without bashing if you want to continue.

If you have any other questions to ask, Apollos or anyone for that matter, I will do my best to respond as directly as I know how.

I do.  But the rest of my response/question will go into the new thread that you made.  Looking forward to corresponding with you, Valerie.  I'm sure that I can learn some new ways of looking at things...a maybe this could be vise versa?

Jesus said..."learn of me".  And "I am the way, truth an life".  Therefore the root has been settled..if we actually believe it.

If I didn't have more faith in your agenda, 8d8, I might be inclined to think you would be happy if the Extermination Order were still in effect.  Now that wouldn't be very Christian, or would it?  :?

Just to scratch the surface of what a prophet is...I don't think Prophet=Perfect Person nor that Perfect Person=Prophet.  Moses killed an Egyptian, David slept with Bathsheba and had her husband killed, Paul denounced Christ and persecuted those who did believe (that is until an angel changed his ways), hopefully you get my meaning here.  The Biblical prophets are far from stellar.

So what's the point here?  Am I crazy for believing in Joseph Smith and Brigham Young?  Perhaps, but I am sure there are a lot of people out there who think it is crazy to believe in Jesus Christ, yet we still do.

 Thankyou very much , Val, for proving with your own words what we've all been trying to get across. Last time I checked, Paul spoke with Jesus himself on the road to Damascus, not an angel. Oops!(Acts 9:4)He (Saul) fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him"Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"5"Who are you Lord?", Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting, " he replied...  Doesn't  sound much like an angel to me, unless of course, you're still taking Joseph Smith's word for it! And as far as what you percieve my 'agenda' to be or not be, it matters not to me. But what does matter to me is to stand for who Jesus Christ is. John ch. 1 clearly tells us that He is God ,and was from the beginning.  
 As far as 'scratching the surface of what a prophet is', (which you never really did) In the bible , a prophet was someone whom God used to communicate His word to the nation of Israel. The prophet's status , whether a  true prophet of God  or an impostor, directly depended upon whether or not what he prophesied came to pass or not. That being said, why don't we scratch the surface of what a false prophet is now?(We get this straight from Jesus , so there's no need for us to scan for false  prophecies... agreed or not?) Matt. 7:15  "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.16 By their fruit you will recognize them."