Topic: Mormonism (Read 7373 times)

Stathei · « **on:** December 16, 2005, 04:04:07 PM »

I have been reading the book "Under the Banner of Heaven", and I am frightened by what I read. Do Mormons really believe that Joe Smith dug up gold plates buried for 1400 years in America? Revealed to him by an angel called Moroni? With ancient Egyptian writings that were decipherable by using the handy included deciphering spectacles? Writings that were the word of God? The same Joe Smith who was previously prosecuted for fraud because he claimed he could find buried treasure using a special stone? Staggering. Truly staggering.

IronRod · « **Reply #1 on:** December 16, 2005, 08:01:57 PM »

I am frightened by what I read.

" You need have no fear, but the fear to offend God." Brigham Young

Do Mormons really believe that Joe Smith dug up gold plates buried for 1400 years in America? Revealed to him by an angel called Moroni?

Yes, and here is Joseph Smiths own words.

33 He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni; that God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people.
34 He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
35 Also, that there were two stones in silver bows

IronRod · « **Reply #2 on:** December 16, 2005, 09:04:35 PM »

In the previous post I said "I believe it, but then I've read the Book"

I just want to be clear to you Stathei that the Book I am reffering to is "The Book of Mormon" the one that was translated from the gold plates.

Stathei · « **Reply #3 on:** December 16, 2005, 09:54:33 PM »

I know what book you were referring to. How you can possibly believe it, I have no idea. You forgot to mention the part where the box containing the plates disappeared into thin air because Joe peeked at them too soon, but they reappeared again when he brought the correct wife to the plates dressed in black, riding in a black carriage drawn by black horse.

IronRod · « **Reply #4 on:** December 16, 2005, 10:11:09 PM »

"You forgot to mention the part where the box containing the plates disappeared into thin air because Joe peeked at them too soon, but they reappeared again when he brought the correct wife to the plates dressed in black, riding in a black carriage drawn by black horse."

Where in the world did you get that story?

"How you can possibly believe it,"

Read it for your self. All that I can tell you is that when you know you will know, and there will be no mistake about knowing it. But you will never know for your self without reading it.

valerie · « **Reply #5 on:** December 17, 2005, 06:25:28 AM »

Quote

You forgot to mention the part where the box containing the plates disappeared into thin air because Joe peeked at them too soon, but they reappeared again when he brought the correct wife to the plates dressed in black, riding in a black carriage drawn by black horse.

That is a very unusual story Stathei! I too have never heard that one before! Sounds very gothic!

Stathei · « **Reply #6 on:** December 18, 2005, 03:05:56 PM »

Quote

"That some years ago, a spirit had appeared to Joseph his son, in a vision, and informed him that in a certain place there was a record on plates of gold, and that he was the person that must obtain them, and this he must do in the following manner: On the 22d of September, he must repair to the place where was deposited this manuscript, dressed in black clothes, and riding a black horse with a switch tail, and demand the book in a certain name, and after obtaining it, he must go directly away, and neither lay it down nor look behind him.4 They accordingly fitted out Joseph with a suit of black clothes and borrowed a black horse."

From Joseph Smith, Sr.

valerie · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2005, 03:10:19 PM »

I thought you said there was some "correct wife" that was supposed to be dressed in black...

Oh yeah, here it is...

Quote

You forgot to mention the part where the box containing the plates disappeared into thin air because Joe peeked at them too soon, but they reappeared again when he brought the correct wife to the plates dressed in black, riding in a black carriage drawn by black horse.

Hmm, doesn't sound like your quoted material. Did you forget to include that?

Stathei · « **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2005, 05:03:32 PM »

Quote

Hmm, doesn't sound like your quoted material.

Lol, true, but it's still pretty Gothic, isn't it? I'll look for the wife business when I get a chance.

valerie · « **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2005, 05:30:01 PM »

I will wait with bated breath...

IronRod · « **Reply #10 on:** December 18, 2005, 07:30:01 PM »

Stathei, will you include a reference so that the quote can be checked out that you attribute to Joseph Smith Sr.

Copernicus · « **Reply #11 on:** December 18, 2005, 07:53:45 PM »

Ironrod, that quote isn't hard to find. It is from an 1833 affidavit. See http://www.irr.org/mit/First-Vision-Scans/first-vision-1827.html, for example.

Stathei · « **Reply #12 on:** December 18, 2005, 09:24:16 PM »

Thanks, Cop.

IronRod, all the peripheral nonsense like this is really irrelevant. If you can see past the fact that Joseph Smith was a convicted fraudster who used a magic stone in a hat to "translate" the "gold plates", I doubt you will listen to reason about any other aspect of this pathetic little swindle called Mormonism. For me, it begins and ends with the stone in the hat. If you believe that, you'll believe the rest.

IronRod · « **Reply #13 on:** December 18, 2005, 10:18:12 PM »

Thanks Cop, I looked up your reference, Then I looked up other references. Willard Chase was a carpenter who Joseph asked to make a box/chest for the purpose of keeping the plates in, he refused, this was in 1827. Joseph also dug a well for willard chase in 1822 long before he got the plates. While digging this well he found a stone that had the powers in it to see things. This might be the stone that Stathei Keeps ranting about. Stathei I do believe the stone in the hat. That isn't what this is all about though is it? Anyway, Willards Sister could see things by way of a piece of green glass. After Joseph got the plates Willard claimed that Joseph said he would share them. for building him the box which willard didn't make. Hyram got a chest/box for Joseph. And yet in my search so far the story of a black horse black clothing has not been mentioned. Willards along with many others tried many strategies to get the plates from joseph. His sister with her seeing abilities claimed to know where they were hid and the mob ransacked the Smith home.

I have a question if people really believe this story is false , why did they try so hard to get the plates.?

valerie · « **Reply #14 on:** December 19, 2005, 06:36:18 AM »

I for one think we should do re-enactments every year! Go to upstate New York and dress up like Smith and others, pretend to dig up the plates and run away from murderous mobsters! It would be better than those civil war re-enactments! I am a sucker for drama!

Stathei · « **Reply #15 on:** December 19, 2005, 02:00:43 PM »

I though you already had a big reenactment thing every year. It sounds like fun, actually. If you had a beer stand I might even go :) !

Sorry to keep ranting about the stone, Iron. Do you blame me for being incredulous about the stone in the hat business? Do you expect me to say "Where is my nearest Mormon tabernacle?"? It's back to my point about gullibility - if God exists, his existence should be indisputable instead of requiring one to set aside all reason in order to believe.

valerie · « **Reply #16 on:** December 19, 2005, 03:38:29 PM »

You are right Stathei, there is something akin to a re-enactment...

http://www.hillcumorah.com/Pageant/

I have never gone to this one. I should head up there one day. I find them to be a bit trite though. Perhaps, I too would enjoy it more with a beer stand.

IronRod · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2005, 09:26:10 PM »

" if God exists"

Stathei, are you saying that you dont believe that there is a God?

Copernicus · « **Reply #18 on:** December 19, 2005, 10:48:19 PM »

Quote from: IronRod

" if God exists"

Stathei, are you saying that you dont believe that there is a God?

Hey! Stathei is not the only one here who can claim that distinction! Why give him all the glory?

IronRod · « **Reply #19 on:** December 20, 2005, 04:18:03 AM »

Welcome ALM,

Maybe its just me, maybe its too early in the morning, but what are you talking about?

Author Topic: Mormonism (Read 7373 times)

Stathei

Stathei

Stathei

Stathei

Stathei

Stathei