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Author Topic: The Mighty Cop: Yet Another Gap Filled in the Fossil Record  (Read 580 times)

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Copernicus

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Yet Another Gap Filled in the Fossil Record

It is a requirement of science that its discoveries be continually verifiable and verified.  Even the obvious must be constantly checked as if some new discovery could overturn or modify what is already known beyond any reasonable doubt.  So this latest discovery of transitional fossils in flatfish does not shock or surprise any scientist.  It was predictable that such fossils might exist, although it was possible that none did or would ever be discovered.  Not every animal or intermediate stage in evolution is recorded in the fossil record, only those whose deaths happen to have been preserved by the sedimentation process.

In this case, the lack of intermediate fossils to demonstrates the evolution of eye migration in flatfish had long been taken as one of those unfilled gaps in the fossil record.  It is precisely the existence of such gaps (although they are fully expected and compatible with evolution theory) that is constantly trotted out by anti-evolutionists as a kind of "proof" that evolution cannot explain everything in nature.  Yet the existence of such gaps also provides an opportunity.  No evolutionist expects there to have been any historical gaps in real history, only in the imperfect recordings of that history by the fossilization process.

The fossil record leaves us with a kind of lengthy movie of the history of life on this planet, but a movie with many missing frames.  So we see that "movie" as a kind of sped-up old-time film, a silent movie where the scenes and characters jump around.  Yet the time-edited film itself stands as proof that real actors once played before that camera.

http://naastika.blogspot.com/2008/07/yet-another-gap-filled-in-fossil-record.html
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 09:12:39 PM by Copernicus »
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End Bringer

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Re: The Mighty Cop: Yet Another Gap Filled in the Fossil Record
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2008, 11:11:21 PM »

I see your flare for evolutionary hype remains unchanged. I find your proclamation of "gaps don't disprove evolution" to be a fine example of why evolution is unfalsifiable and not the least bit hypocritical to your issue of man and dinosaurs. As evolution predicts countless transitional forms it's perfectly reasonable to point out that we should be up to our ears in them, though evolutionists can only produce a handful of debatable examples. Even this new 'example' is highly fishy (pun totally intended). Zoologist Frank Sherwin:

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Copernicus

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Re: The Mighty Cop: Yet Another Gap Filled in the Fossil Record
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2008, 02:10:23 PM »

...I find your proclamation of "gaps don't disprove evolution" to be a fine example of why evolution is unfalsifiable and not the least bit hypocritical to your issue of man and dinosaurs. As evolution predicts countless transitional forms it's perfectly reasonable to point out that we should be up to our ears in them, though evolutionists can only produce a handful of debatable examples. Even this new 'example' is highly fishy (pun totally intended).

Why quote a "proclamation" that I didn't say?  This is just another caricature of what I did say.  I said that creationists used the existence of such gaps to argue that evolution is unproven, not "disproven".  They also often make the false claim that such transitional fossils are scarce.  In fact, what we have seen is a pattern of shrinking "gaps" for more than a century through an explosive growth of such discoveries.  It is that pattern that confirms the expectation.  And, as I've said many times before, the detailed picture that we've built up of evolution would by shattered by the discovery of, say, dinosaur fossils intermixed with human fossils.  Your only explanation for the lack of such counterevidence is the feeble argument that dinosaurs and humans lived on the same planet but never ran into each other, even though both human and dinosaur fossils are geographically ubiquitous.


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Zoologist Frank Sherwin...

Give me a break!  This guy claims to have an MA, but he is nothing more than a creationist hack without a single scientific publication to his name.  People like Behe, at least, have real credentials, even if he can't get his papers published anywhere but in philosophy journals.

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It's also a telling fact of evolutionistic debating that the announcement of major gaps aren't really dwelt upon till they are thought to be filled.

This is false.  The evolution of the flatfish has long been open to debate.  That is why this discovery made such news.  It was directly relevant to the longstanding controversy.

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Of course this only goes into the issue that it's presuppositious to think that "gaps in the fossil record" even exist, as the only way to think that gaps exist is to think evolution is true before hand. However from a creationist view the fossil record is far more complete when one considers that almost all kinds of creature living today have been found as fossils. It's circular reasoning to use the expectation of many transitional forms and the failure to find most or any as an arguement for 'gaps'.

What rubbish.  Gaps exist because most living organisms don't leave fossil remains.  Evolutionists have set up a number of expectations about future discoveries, and they have been right on target for so many decades that no scientist of any repute seriously questions macroevolution.  The few pro-ID scientists with reasonable credentials cannot seem to make a convincing enough case to get their work published.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 02:20:20 PM by Copernicus »
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Re: The Mighty Cop: Yet Another Gap Filled in the Fossil Record
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2008, 01:21:10 AM »

Why quote a "proclamation" that I didn't say?  This is just another caricature of what I did say.  I said that creationists used the existence of such gaps to argue that evolution is unproven, not "disproven".  They also often make the false claim that such transitional fossils are scarce.  In fact, what we have seen is a pattern of shrinking "gaps" for more than a century through an explosive growth of such discoveries.  It is that pattern that confirms the expectation.  And, as I've said many times before, the detailed picture that we've built up of evolution would by shattered by the discovery of, say, dinosaur fossils intermixed with human fossils.  Your only explanation for the lack of such counterevidence is the feeble argument that dinosaurs and humans lived on the same planet but never ran into each other, even though both human and dinosaur fossils are geographically ubiquitous.

My mistake on the terminalogy. However the essential gist is the same- that you so boldly claim that evolution is very comfortable with such 'gaps' existing shows the issue of them being 'filled' only further shows evolution to be unfalsifiable. And yes, evolutionist regard that there are indeed 'many' transitional forms forund, but this is not so. Rather once the hype dies down, such forms are seen as true-brids, true-fish, etc. etc. At best being like the platypus in that they contain mosiac features (the famed Archaeopteryx). As such, the issue boils down to interpretation of commonality. Evolutionists see it as evidence for macroevolution (while never observing the change), while ID will see it as proof of a common Designer.

It has also been noted that the 'explosive growth' as you put it is largely due to the fact that evolutionists rarely find whole fossils, but rather bits and pieces of fragments. As such evolutionists are free to place more and more in the 'transitional form' catagory because the very nature of fragmentary fossils leaves evolutionists to speculate and imagine the missing pieces. One such example are the claims of 'legged fish' when a skull has been found but the bones of legs are absent. And more often than not more finds only make the 'movie' more complicated.

And with your very clear dismissal of sharks, spiders, etc. and other 'stasis' animals that have been anounced to live at the same time as the dinousaurs with little change to them being no threat to evolution (if it's unfalsifiable why would they be a threat?),  I hold your proclamations on the dinosaur issue to be nothing but bluff and sputtering. Not the least bit is your failed grasp of the arguement, as it is creationists claims that man has encountered dinosaurs numerous times in many regions i.e. the source for dragons across the globe, and reported sightings in remote regions like the Congo where nature remains largely untouched.


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Give me a break!  This guy claims to have an MA, but he is nothing more than a creationist hack without a single scientific publication to his name.  People like Behe, at least, have real credentials, even if he can't get his papers published anywhere but in philosophy journals.

Cop's Debating Strategy: when all else fails resort to ad homenims.

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This is false.  The evolution of the flatfish has long been open to debate.  That is why this discovery made such news.  It was directly relevant to the longstanding controversy.

Now who is commiting a caricature? I didn't say it wasn't open to debate. I said that evolutionists don't really dwell on these gaps until they think they're filled, as your own opening post shows. The one's who bring them up are creationists and IDers.

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What rubbish.  Gaps exist because most living organisms don't leave fossil remains.  Evolutionists have set up a number of expectations about future discoveries, and they have been right on target for so many decades that no scientist of any repute seriously questions macroevolution.  The few pro-ID scientists with reasonable credentials cannot seem to make a convincing enough case to get their work published.

Excuses, excuses, and more question begging that 'gaps' exist at all. As stated it's this very expectation that evolutionists have set up that makes the whole thing circular reasoning. The only reason to call it 'gappy' is the lack of transitional fossils that evolutionists expect, but to use such an expectation and their failure to show up is a circular arguement for the existence of 'gaps'. Doesn't fly.

And as Expelled and other more free thinking people are showing, the issue isn't so much 'evidence' as it is on 'interpretation' with a clear and present bias in the established order of evolutionists being very threatened by it. We saw the same kind of attitude on how the scientific community treated Galileo. When one threatens the esltablished order it's not surprising that the established order tries to shut down dissent in it's entirety (as noted for most other subjects even 'wrong' ideas seem to have backing), though for all that effort more people are coming to reject evolution.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 01:30:08 AM by End Bringer »
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