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cimics

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Bush's Supreme Court nominees
« on: October 12, 2005, 08:49:21 PM »

So what does everyone think about Bush's nominees?  In addition to the poll question (whether it will shift the balance of the court), what do you personally think about his choices?
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TheAtheistHeratic

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Bush's Supreme Court nominees
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2005, 03:11:22 PM »

Bush's female nominee could in the end be more simpathetic to the left wing then the right wing.  But who knows anything can happen.  Afterall this is america.
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The Sasquatch

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Bush's Supreme Court nominees
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2005, 08:31:45 AM »

I think the blanace of the court will remain largely the same, but there will be a shift towards a more strict interpretation of the Constitution with Roberts installed as the CJ. From what I have read of most of his cases (and I could be wrong...because I haven't read a lot) he seems to be more interested in what the law says and not advocating a perticuarly liberal or conservative interpretation.

Miers will probably be aout the same as O'Conner: Largely conservative with the option to swing the other way on a few cases here and there. Assuming, of course, that she is elected.
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Copernicus

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« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2005, 03:03:38 PM »

It all depends on how many people Bush gets to replace.  He has a political agenda, a litmus test, and years to gather the list.  Miers was a particularly bad choice, and I have my doubts that she can survive the heat.  In my opinion, she is a slam-dunk for the anti-abortion movement and those who want to see greater promotion of conservative Christian doctrine by government.  She was picked because she has almost literally no track record to attack.  Conservative Christians, lacking faith in their White House patron, have shot themselves in the foot repeatedly by failing to see the numerous winks and hear the heavily coded language coming out of the adminstration.

Conservatives and evangelical Christians do not need Miers.  They know that they'll get a more reliable candidate next time if Miers fails.  Bush won't make the same mistake twice.  (Or maybe he will.  He makes a fetish of not being flexible.)  Meanwhile, the Democrats are mostly lying low and letting the conservatives squabble and bicker.
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The Sasquatch

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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2005, 11:36:08 PM »

He has a political agenda, a litmus test, and years to gather the list
What, pray tell, is this litmus test of which you speak?

Miers was a particularly bad choice, and I have my doubts that she can survive the heat. In my opinion, she is a slam-dunk for the anti-abortion movement and those who want to see greater promotion of conservative Christian doctrine by government. She was picked because she has almost literally no track record to attack.
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Ragnar

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Bush's Supreme Court nominees
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2005, 12:04:47 AM »

Miers was a particularly bad choice, and I have my doubts that she can survive the heat. In my opinion, she is a slam-dunk for the anti-abortion movement and those who want to see greater promotion of conservative Christian doctrine by government. She was picked because she has almost literally no track record to attack.
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The Sasquatch

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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2005, 12:55:44 AM »

no record=bad choice
The mere fact that she has not been a judge means she is not capable? Why is that? Most presidents have never been presidents, yet nobody would argue that this is reason enough to conclude that they are a bad choice.

She has said she is against abortion. This has nothing to do with one's track record, you're either pro-choice or you're not. She's not.
She may have said thay she is against abortion, but has she stated that she believes the law behind Roe vs Wade to be incorrect? John Roberts has stated that he, too, disagrees with abortion on moral principles, but he has also stated that he believes RvW to be settled law. So, given this new info, do you still believe she is a slam dunk for pro-life? If so, why?

a slam dunk for conservative Christian doctrine
In case you haven't heard, conservative Christian doctrine is larger than the single issue of abortion. There are many other issues to consider. So, what reasons do you have for your conclusion in this aspect as opposed to the single issue of abortion?
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Ragnar

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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2005, 01:06:34 AM »

To be honest, I was just offering what I read from one Newsday article. I really don't care who's on the Supreme Court, as long as they don't overturn Roe v. Wade. If you think they won't, then I really have nothing to argue with you about. The points were originally Cop's, I'll let him defend them if he wants to.
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[batman

"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."  
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The Sasquatch

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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2005, 01:46:32 PM »

Fair enough.
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Bush's Supreme Court nominees
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2005, 03:09:48 PM »

I think having politicians as judges is a bad idea to begin with.
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"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." (Washington, D.C., April 1999) [2]

"One of the great achievements of science has been, if not to make it impossible for intelligent people to be religious, then at least to make it possible for them not to be religious. We should not retreat from this accomplishment." (ibid.)
[edit]

Both quotes of Steven Weinberg

Copernicus

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« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2005, 10:56:58 AM »

Quote from: The Sasquatch
He has a political agenda, a litmus test, and years to gather the list
What, pray tell, is this litmus test of which you speak?


Bush will only appoint judges who "share his political philosophy".  That philosophy includes the judicial repeal of a woman's right to choose abortion, the reinterpretation of the the Establishment clause to allow government sponsorship of religion and religious institutions, and the erosion of privacy rights among other things.  Hence, the controversy over Griswold, where she apparently told a Senator that she supported Griswold but later reversed her position (probably when someone reminded her what Griswold was about).

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SoughtFound&Alive

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Bush's Supreme Court nominees
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2005, 05:18:21 PM »

Well, forgive me if I'm wrong but I always believe Bush's "litmus test" for nominees was having a strict, literal interpretation of the Constitution.  That's all I've ever heard him say.
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Copernicus

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« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2005, 07:31:09 PM »

Quote from: SoughtFound&Alive
Well, forgive me if I'm wrong but I always believe Bush's "litmus test" for nominees was having a strict, literal interpretation of the Constitution.  That's all I've ever heard him say.


That's an old claim by those who opposed certain rulings by the Supreme Court, but it is really code for legislating conservative causes from the bench--e.g. overturning gun control laws, state endorsement of religion, removing the privacy rights that allow women to have abortions, and a host of other reactionary causes.  In reality, those who clamor for "strict interpretations" do not want to repeal ALL the changes that are not strictly literal--e.g. returning the right of the Senate to conduct foreign policy, removing references to God on our money or in the Pledge.  A literal interpretation of the Constitution is like a literal interpretation of the Bible.  It all depends on who is doing the interpreting.  What it comes down to is using the Court to repeal precedent, and that is exactly what the conservatives will do if they can overwhelm the remaining moderates.
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cimics

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Bush's Supreme Court nominees
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2005, 01:01:07 PM »

Quote
returning the right of the Senate to conduct foreign policy


I take it you mean the treaty power.  But the President makes treaties with the advice and consent of two thirds of the Senate.  It's in Article II, so it's a Presidential power, with a senatorial limitation on that power.  Hardly an example of the Senate having the right to conduct foreign policy.
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Anthony Horvath

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« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2005, 02:29:10 PM »

"Right now, Bush is desperately trying to save the nomination."

Actually, I suggested to a friend on the first day that the nomination was meant to fail.   I thought it might be an effort to test the total will of the Republican party to see if they would really do what it would take to put on and confirm a contentious candidate (Janice Rogers Brown?).  This seemed to me to be something the Pres could not count on.  However, now that its the Republicans doing the rallying, they'll be compelled to support someone that really is much more conservative, since by appearances they'll have been the ones to instigate it.  So, I thought that her withdrawal was inevitable from the start.

According to the current elitists, Bush could never do something that smart, but people constantly underestimate his tactical abilities and his willingness to press on with what he thinks is right no matter what the critics say.  If she is as loyal as many Bush folks are, she'd do it, too.
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« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2005, 02:42:04 PM »

It's not a matter of "smart."  That's way too Machiavellian.  We're talking about a close friend of Bush's.  Intentionally subjecting someone to ridicule is not being a particularly good friend.  I think Bush miscalculated at the reaction he got.  It's possible that he didn't miscalculate but was determined to push her through if at all possible.  But intentionally offering her as a sacrificial lamb does not seem at all likely to me.
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« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2005, 10:48:41 AM »

"...but it is really code for legislating conservative causes from the bench..."

I see it more as code for taking power away from the federal government, usually on social issues.  That means the states would have more latitude in deciding what they want to do about social issues (gun control, abortion, assisted-suicide etc. ) and many social issues would fall back out of the federal sphere.  To me it
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« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2005, 07:35:52 PM »

Quote from: sntjohnny
"Right now, Bush is desperately trying to save the nomination."

Actually, I suggested to a friend on the first day that the nomination was meant to fail.   I thought it might be an effort to test the total will of the Republican party to see if they would really do what it would take to put on and confirm a contentious candidate (Janice Rogers Brown?).  This seemed to me to be something the Pres could not count on.  However, now that its the Republicans doing the rallying, they'll be compelled to support someone that really is much more conservative, since by appearances they'll have been the ones to instigate it.  So, I thought that her withdrawal was inevitable from the start.


On the left, conspiracy theorists are already claiming that Bush cleverly proposed an incompetent candidate as a "rope-a-dope" strategy.  Tire the opponents out with an obvious loser, and then hit them with the real choice.  They'll be in no position to resist.  Today, one of my liberal friends predicted that he will nominate Bork next.  Personally, I don't put any credence in such paranoid fantasies.  

I think that Bush and his inner circle  really thought that they could sneak Miers through more easily as a stealth candidate with no paper trail.  They ended up with egg on their face because the lack of the paper trail backfired among their own political base--whom they were counting on for support.  Conservative Christians didn't trust the winks, and the winks just inflamed the moderate and liberal opposition.

Quote
According to the current elitists, Bush could never do something that smart, but people constantly underestimate his tactical abilities and his willingness to press on with what he thinks is right no matter what the critics say.  If she is as loyal as many Bush folks are, she'd do it, too.


I am among those "elitists" who think that Bush isn't that smart.  I think that the man is great at clearing brush on his ranch, but he is clueless as a chief executive of the most powerful nation on the planet.  Miers followed something of a pattern in his crony-laden administration.  She didn't have any special credentials for the job, but she was loyal to him personally and she came with good recommendations from his other cronies.  Like Cheney, she was put in charge of the talent search for the office he was grooming her for.  Like Cheney, she ended up being offered the job, instead of the other candidates she was supposed to be evaluating fairly.  (I can only imagine how that exercise went.  She knew that she was a top contender, but she was in charge of interviewing potential candidates.)  

Bush will now proceed to nominate someone who will be more partisan.  Pat Buchanan has said that Bush will stick it to the right-wing Christians, because he will want revenge for their disloyalty.  I disagree.  They raised the most visible stink.  He'll choose someone that more clearly toes the Christian line.  The Democrats, who were less aggressive about Miers and who have no real power, will complain publicly and acquiesce privately.  It may not have been a conscious rope-a-dope strategy, but that is how it will play out in the end.  If Democrats become too obstructive, the public will lose patience with them.  So Bush has a much freer hand to promote the interests of his more extremist supporters.
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Anthony Horvath

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« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2005, 09:47:08 PM »

"It may not have been a conscious rope-a-dope strategy, but that is how it will play out in the end."

Exactly.  :)  But I think it was intentional.  Bush is smart.  He's been outsmarting his opposition from the get go.  Its easier when they think he is stupid.  Even so, your analysis is quite correct- the game is now laid out where the those Republicans who made a stink will have to support- and this is important, FIGHT- for the nominee that they have now gone on record wanting.   He had to charge up the base in order to get his own party up to speed.  I mean, good Lord, its not like the Republicans don't have the Senate, the House, and the Presidency.  You shouldn't HAVE to charge up the base to get Republican Senators to demonstrate they have a pair.

At anyrate, if Bush puts up someone that draws a Dem filibuster, I think my analysis that it was intentional from the get go is strongly supported.  If he puts up Gonzalez or something like that, then the Miers thing probably really was a blunder, and it really was about 'qualifications.'
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« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2005, 10:53:40 PM »

Looks like Miers is down for the count:

Miers withdrawal

Let the speculation and conspiracy theories begin!
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