Topic: Decline of Christian Culture and Values (Read 2640 times)

valerie · « **on:** December 01, 2005, 01:05:46 PM »

I just read this article...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20051201/ts_usatoday/trimmingchristmasfromtreesstirsdebate

The Christmas Tree has always been a "Christmas" tree (regardless of it's pagan origins) because Christmas is about Christ. However, this article reminds me that Christian culture, and some beliefs are being forced to non existence under the guise of tolerance. If someone doesn't believe in Christ should they REALLY be celebrating Christmas? Regardless of what you call the tree it still is in rememberance of Christmas, therefore still a Christmas tree. So why the fuss to call it something else? Have we pushed ethics/politics/culture so far that we are creating our own hybrid holidays of materialism?

This is my response to the article. If you don't believe in Christ then don't have any tree and don't celebrate Christmas! If it bothers you that someone puts up a Christmas tree in a public place then take it up with the owner of such place. So far you can't legally force someone to change the name of the holiday icons they choose to display because you don't believe in the holiday. However, we may not be far from it.

What do you guys think? Is politics being used to push Christian culture and values out the window? Is that a good thing?

TheAtheistHeratic · « **Reply #1 on:** December 01, 2005, 04:00:14 PM »

Sure is a good thing. I think I am going to buy a "Holiday Tree".

valerie · « **Reply #2 on:** December 01, 2005, 05:01:04 PM »

David · « **Reply #3 on:** December 01, 2005, 06:10:56 PM »

I agree with you Valerie. If you don't like Christmas because it inherently has Christ in its name and essence, then don't celebrate the holiday. Celebrate Kwanzaa or something else pagan. Don't try to change other religions holidays because you don't like them.

Zagzagel · « **Reply #4 on:** December 01, 2005, 08:07:23 PM »

For myself, I didn't bother reading the link. I already think that the celebration of this "Christmas" is without merit. There is no instruction in scripture to do such a thing. IF the Christian does it today, it is because he/she thinks this is a religious thing to do. Since I am not religious, then I do not feel obliged to follow this belief. Although, I will not condemn them who do so. I will, though, feel pity too those who have a strong belief to do so.

Copernicus · « **Reply #5 on:** December 01, 2005, 09:52:42 PM »

Quote from: valerie

The Christmas Tree has always been a "Christmas" tree (regardless of it's pagan origins) because Christmas is about Christ..

Not really. Just as the Christmas tree was borrowed from pagans, so was Christmas. Nobody in the 3rd century had authoritative knowledge of when Jesus was born, so, in 354 AD, Bishop Liberus declared December 25, the pagan "Saturnalia" celebration of the winter solstice, to be the birth date of Jesus. The Roman Emperor Justinian made it official in the 6th century. When the Julian calendar was replaced by the Gregorian, some Eastern Orthodox religions retained the "Old Style" date. So the Russian Orthodox Christmas is celebrated on January 7--13 days after the Gregorian version.

Quote

However, this article reminds me that Christian culture, and some beliefs are being forced to non existence under the guise of tolerance. If someone doesn't believe in Christ should they REALLY be celebrating Christmas? Regardless of what you call the tree it still is in rememberance of Christmas, therefore still a Christmas tree. So why the fuss to call it something else? Have we pushed ethics/politics/culture so far that we are creating our own hybrid holidays of materialism?

I'm in favor of returning to the celebration of Saturnalia (Winter Solstice) and drinking Saturnalia toasts to yule logs. Let the Christians have their stuffy ersatz religious celebration!

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What do you guys think? Is politics being used to push Christian culture and values out the window? Is that a good thing?

I think that politics is being used to push it in the window. We should throw it back out again and stop celebrating the birth of Christ on a pagan holiday. Christmas is no fun if you forget its good old-fashioned pagan origins. Have a happy Winter Solstice, everyone! Don't let the stodgy Christians prevent you from having fun.

valerie · « **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2005, 03:19:34 PM »

Just because the Christmas holiday is derived from a pagan celebration of the winter solstice does not negate the fact the Christ was born and Christians want to celebrate that birth day. It wouldn't matter if it were in July. The fact is the Christians have adopted that "celebration" and attached to it their own religious point of view. If anyone should be mad about the use of the word "Christmas" it is the pagans who lost the true meaning of their holiday!

Just to add a little interest here...the Mormons do not support the notion that December 25 is the day Christ was born. We just celebrate Christmas along with everyone else because we can't make our own National holiday on the actual day he was born. Besides, it is the celebration of the birth of Christ that matters not that the celebration occur on the exact day of his birth.

TheAtheistHeratic · « **Reply #7 on:** January 19, 2006, 07:20:09 PM »

I liked my holiday tree.

jesusboy · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2006, 07:16:34 PM »

Valerie I am having trouble seeing your point. I cant tell wether you agree with putting up a christmas tree or not. What article are you initially reffering to. As for me I think the tree has become a tradition that is made more that what it is supposed to be, yes it did come from a pagan holiday thanks to Constentine (Roman emporer who made christianitty leagal) but christians don't bow down to the tree we bow down to the creator of tree. What makes me mad is when people contantly remove the real reason for X-mas and replace it with "Happy Holidays", Santa and giving. While they have become apart of christmass they are not the reason for the season.
One last final thought if the tree really bothers you that much think of this Christ died on cross made of wood that was a tree so at his birth we put up a tree because his ultimate purpose was to die on one.
__________________________________________
On Christ the solid rock I stand all other ground is sinking sand.

howlingmeteore · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2006, 12:02:45 PM »

Quote from: valerie

What do you guys think? Is politics being used to push Christian culture and values out the window? Is that a good thing?

I am personally fuming mad about the fact people are trying to get themselves respected for what they believe by sabotaging christianity, I mean , if you do not believe in Christ and/or Christmas I have nothing against you, I love the people regardless but please try to get it into your head that christians are there and they have their own rights, period.
By the way, another thing I really , reaaaaaally detest is when the categories ( depending on the particular episode or context ) asking even demending officiality are the very very minority. In a civil society we respect one another however we do not plan most of our things around the few, which I find pretty fair.
I've seen too many cry over "those poor immigrants coming from this or that land " , well I am an immigrant too, I've accepted I am not home, so can they, amen

Deep Thought · « **Reply #10 on:** April 04, 2006, 03:14:49 PM »

I guess the only reason I continue to celebrate Christmas is because I just like the spirit of giving... (could do without the rabid commercialism, but I have to get the gifts from SOMEWHERE, right?) ...and because I like knowing that other people care enough about me to remember that I wanted that single-volume copy of The Lord of the Rings.

Oh, and the week-long break from school ain't bad, either.

I won't bother trying to change the name of the holiday or anything stupid like that, though. I'm quite comfortable recognizing, and acknowledging, the origins (both pagan AND Christian) of the holiday, thank ya very much. I don't need to eliminate the name "Christ" from the equation.

howlingmeteore · « **Reply #11 on:** April 04, 2006, 07:08:04 PM »

Quote from: Deep Thought

I The Lord of the Rings.

.

little ot, you must have a whole lot heck of patience to even read it, I tried to watch the movie about 4/5 times three years ago and I literally fell asleep within the first 15 minutes, somebody giving you THAT for christmas must really really care enough to put themselves aside and think of giving

Deep Thought · « **Reply #12 on:** April 04, 2006, 07:54:09 PM »

Well, I read a lot. And I do have more patience when it comes to movies/books/etc. that some would call "boring..."

howlingmeteore · « **Reply #13 on:** April 05, 2006, 07:45:17 PM »

Quote from: Deep Thought

Well, I read a lot. And I do have more patience when it comes to movies/books/etc. that some would call "boring..."

well I read a lot too, chick books and mickey mouse

my husband has to order huge packages from Italy with a lot of donald duck stories and such, I'm sort of picky for what formats of walt disney publications I like to read so....yes I really think he's into the spirit of giving , that's cool...
mmmmmmmm question...how were you not grossed out by the old guy eating the fish raw, I repeatedly had to hold my instict to puke

the reason I saw that part is my husband took me to the movies and I was so ashamed even thinking I could fall asleep in public, however I don't know, it might have been better

Deep Thought · « **Reply #14 on:** April 06, 2006, 07:09:52 AM »

I wasn't particularly grossed out, but that's 'cause I read it first. Gollum (who is in fact "old," five centuries old in fact, but does not look or sound the way he does because of age) has been feeding himself on raw pretty-much-anything for hundreds of years due to his separation from the society he once lived in. He spent almost 400 years living in a cave with almost nothing to eat but blind fish and wandering orc...

Ragnar · « **Reply #15 on:** April 06, 2006, 11:27:45 AM »

Did Gollum manage to eat any orcs? I thought he just ate fish.

Deep Thought · « **Reply #16 on:** April 06, 2006, 12:45:12 PM »

Quote from: Ragnar

Did Gollum manage to eat any orcs? I thought he just ate fish.

Gollum was reputed in the Prologue of LotR (which I just read yesterday, incidently) to have eaten orc or anything he could catch without a struggle while he lived in the caves under the Misty Mountains with his "precious." He seems to have favored fish throughout the story, however.

Ragnar · « **Reply #17 on:** April 06, 2006, 03:07:26 PM »

Ah, that's right, forgot about that. It's been awhile since I read it.

TheAtheistHeratic · « **Reply #18 on:** April 06, 2006, 03:49:25 PM »

So orc must be pretty easy to kill when they are alone then?

howlingmeteore · « **Reply #19 on:** April 07, 2006, 05:41:02 PM »

Quote from: Deep Thought

I wasn't particularly grossed out, but that's 'cause I read it first..

well you' are soooooo lucky, I've would have been grossed out the same way, now I know for sure why my husband picks on me saying he did not marry an italian but a snobbish british

Author Topic: Decline of Christian Culture and Values (Read 2640 times)

David