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JustLiz

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Peak Oil
« on: June 15, 2006, 11:25:13 PM »

I do not intent this thread to be a debate, although knowing the fine people on this forum, I'm sure it'll end up that way anyway!

Anyway, I'm just curious whose heard of peak oil and their thoughts on it.  If you haven't, here's a link www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net to start with.  Please note: I am not necessarily endorsing this website.  I just found it to be the most informative on the issue.
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Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it's like, a serious bummer.

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."  Romans 12:2

Copernicus

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Re: Peak Oil
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2006, 09:45:54 PM »

Quote from: JustLiz
Anyway, I'm just curious whose heard of peak oil and their thoughts on it.  If you haven't, here's a link www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net to start with.  Please note: I am not necessarily endorsing this website.  I just found it to be the most informative on the issue.


Liz, I thought that that website was very good on the serious dilemmas that we face in the short term, particularly in the area of how important petrochemicals are to the international food supply.  We have to support over 6.5 billion people today, and that number is growing rapidly.  Without oil-based fertilizer products and pesticides, we may face famines that have not been seen in decades.  What the website did not say much about was the convergence of that with the environmental crisis.  Diminishing oil stocks will force us to turn to coal, which could dramatically increase carbon pollution.  

In general, though, all of this will be slightly mitigated by the fact that we will switch over to alternative sources of fuel.  Also, the destabilization of the Middle East, thanks to US foreign policy, will have a silver lining in that it will slow down the gutting of world oil supplies .  At the same time, it will bring on economic hardships sooner than expected.
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JustLiz

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Re: Peak Oil
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2006, 10:33:16 PM »

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Liz, I thought that that website was very good on the serious dilemmas that we face in the short term, particularly in the area of how important petrochemicals are to the international food supply.  We have to support over 6.5 billion people today, and that number is growing rapidly.  Without oil-based fertilizer products and pesticides, we may face famines that have not been seen in decades.

I agree completely.  When I first read that site, I was in shock for a few days - okay actually weeks - about just how utterly dependent upon oil we have become.  I was also a little ticked at the stupidity of the last hundred years that put us in this mess.  I'm just as concerned about the oil products we rely on - plastic and medicines are two of the biggies.
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What the website did not say much about was the convergence of that with the environmental crisis.  Diminishing oil stocks will force us to turn to coal, which could dramatically increase carbon pollution.  

It may not be in his main article, but he has a news and updates page where he posts relevant links on an almost daily basis.  He links to several articles about global warming and the implications of increased coal usage on a regular basis.
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In general, though, all of this will be slightly mitigated by the fact that we will switch over to alternative sources of fuel.

You're more optimistic than I am.  I think it's too little too late.  I don't know if you saw the link to a recent article where Saudi Arabia acknowledged their oil production is down 400,000 barrels per day.  That's an ominous sign.  A good book to explain why is Twilight in the Desert - for you or the lurkers.
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Also, the destabilization of the Middle East, thanks to US foreign policy, will have a silver lining in that it will slow down the gutting of world oil supplies .  At the same time, it will bring on economic hardships sooner than expected.

Have you read The Fourth Turning?  It was written in the '90's.  Very interesting.  Puts a very depressing twist on 9/11.

Is it me being paranoid, or does anyone else feel the US - heck the world - is in the early waves of the Perfect Storm?  I see so many areas which trouble me greatly.
1.  75% of mortgages written in the last 5 years have been "creative" - interest only, ARM's, reverse amortization, etc.  What makes this scary is the majority of people have no clue that their rate increase will make their payment increase.  Since the underwriting standards have been loosened the last ten years, the bulk of these people are already maxed out.  As rates increase, it could lead to massive foreclosures.
2.  The Baby Boomers are about to start retiring.  What makes this bad is so much of their money is locked into 401(k)'s - the stock market.  The first hiccup and they'll pull their money out - big crash.
3.  We are sitting on the largest deficit ever.  No nation in the history of the world has been able to sustain a per capita national debt that exceeded the per capita income.  We are dangerously close - or have already exceeded - that amount.
4.  Which leads to social security.  As the boomers start retiring, they'll cease being tax payers and start being tax takers.  I don't see how we can sustain such a deficit and pay for the boomers retirement.
5.  The Middle East.  Where do I begin?  The Fourth Turning addresses why that is so hugely significant much better than I can.
6.  GM is already in serious trouble.  One-sixth of our economy is the automotive sector.  Automotive is already selling itself to death.  The sweeter the deals on new cars, the quicker the used ones depreciate.  We bought a new Aztec a few years ago.  Ten months later we were upside down $12,000.  We're still around $10,000 upside down.  I know we're not the only ones in this boat.  There's a lot of people out there stuck in a gas guzzler they can't afford at $3+ a gallon.  I was a controller for a GM dealer for ten years prior to being a stay-at-home homeschooling mom.  Toward the end, I was very concerned because the ratio of new to used sold was getting way out of whack.  The new car craze is going to crash eventually.

If any one of these areas goes, the domino effect will be bad.  Not just here, but worldwide.  China has such a hot economy today, but if ours goes to crap, theirs will too since they're making their money on us.

Of course, we could all fry first.  I read the other day that our particle pollution is actually shielding us from the worst of the global warming.  When we stop pumping more pollution into the atmosphere, we'll lose that protective layer.

Not good.  Not good.  Does anyone have a more optimistic outlook?
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Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it's like, a serious bummer.

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."  Romans 12:2

JustLiz

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Peak Oil
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2006, 10:51:23 PM »

Just like the Ronco commercial, but wait, there's more!

I don't know how many people are aware of this, but during the Clinton administration, the formula used to calculate inflation was very quietly changed.  Two outrageous examples - If a car manufacturer converts air from being an optional to a standard feature, it is called a "value added" item and is not included in the inflation calculation.  Never mind that it still costs more to buy the vehicle.  The other one is the value of rent a homeowner could theoretically receive if they rented out their home is deducted from the housing costs portion of the inflation calculator.

Why was this done?  Clinton's reason was to subtly lower the effective amount of Social Security, welfare, and other benefits tied in with the cost of living index to balance the budget.  Bush's benefit has been that he can make the economy sound much healthier than it actually is.  We have a negative savings rate in the nation for the first time since the Great Depression.  Any economic growth is debt based, not an actual increase.  Add to that Bernanke's plan is to inflate away our deficit and we're in for a fun ride.
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Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it's like, a serious bummer.

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."  Romans 12:2

Ragnar

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Peak Oil
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2006, 05:41:14 PM »

Umm, primitives survived a global ice age. Whatever happens, we'll deal, the species will survive.

Of course, I think those who rely on reason and rationality will fare better than those who rely on gods  :wink:

If every single person who owned a car switched to a hybrid tomorrow, how much better off will we be? I'd be interested in seeing those numbers if anyone's looked into that. I'd wager the oil "crisis" would nearly disappear.
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