"That doesn't mean I need to be rude about it, though. I will usually let a fellow make a buttocks of himself... until he expresses the opinion that since I don't see things his way, I'm destined for aitch ee double hockey sticks. Then I try to set him straight. If the conversation is face-to-face, I call it off as soon as I see that he's adamant and the conversation deteriorates to the "is not -- is too" stage. At that point, he's not listening - nor ever likely to be listening, nor is he reasonable. At least I realize I could be wrong. If he won't do that, he's beyond help."

Can I get an "Amen?" This is the perfect way to look at it. No respect, just manners. That's all that need be shown. I have no reservations about debating religious beliefs (I personally think it my sworn duty to at least make sure people believe things because they've "noodled it out for themselves," as you put it, as opposed to indoctrination or whatnot--which reminds me, I have to have a little chat with my girlfriend about her Catholicism, 'cause I'm not sure what the deal is there...)

I only want to know where my girlfriend stands. I've only once heard her say she's Roman Catholic (this weekend, incidently), and I didn't have time to inquire further. I at least want to make sure she has some basis in reason to believe what she believes, as opposed to just being an indoctinated teenager...

Hmmm... y'know, I don't really think she knows exactly where *I* stand yet. I've mentioned in passing that I'm not sure about religion, but other than that...

It seems that what other people mean by respect is an unbridled attitude of "do your own thing, I don't really care"--which means, essentially, we on the interior condone of and approve beliefs we don't actually hold ourselves. That means a Christian condones and approves Satanism, Islam, Atheism, and all manner of paganism, because (after all), "everyone's right if nobody's wrong."

Respect, then, shall be defined for the purposes of this discussion as one's actual interior attitude, whereas manners are more in the area of "tolerance," however forced it may be.

Respecting one's wife and respecting the religious beliefs of one's wife are, thankfully, two separate (if in some places related) things.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I only want to know where my girlfriend stands. I've only once heard her say she's Roman Catholic (this weekend, incidently), and I didn't have time to inquire further. I at least want to make sure she has some basis in reason to believe what she believes, as opposed to just being an indoctinated teenager...

I have yet to meet a Catholic who has anything approaching actual beliefs, or anyone who has converted to Catholicism after being something else. Catholics, for the most part, seem to be indoctrinated as children, then mostly ignore their religion as adults while still claiming to be Catholic, or think about their religion, realize it's ridiculous, and become something else.

I don't even think any Catholics post here. Good luck with the girlfriend, although it sounds like she's one of the ones that hasn't given religion much thought. If she doesn't care what you believe, I would just leave it alone. You can't reason someone out of something they refuse to think about to begin with.

But if there's even a remote possibility of us being together for any long length of time (we're only at three months now), it'd be good to make sure we understand each other's differences--that including religious beliefs, which could potentially come into conflict at times.

I only learned she was Catholic when we were in the bookstore and she criticized "The Da Vinci Code" as being Satanic. I'm curious to see just how much faith she puts into this (or for that matter whether she really believes it at all, or is just going through the motions of it with no real thought), but I still haven't had time to talk to her about it.

I only learned she was Catholic when we were in the bookstore and she criticized "The Da Vinci Code" as being Satanic. I'm curious to see just how much faith she puts into this (or for that matter whether she really believes it at all, or is just going through the motions of it with no real thought), but I still haven't had time to talk to her about it.

Eek, I tend to run the other way when someone criticizes a work of fiction as Satanic, unless she said it in jest. If she's serious, has read the book, and has thought about it, I would be concerned. If she's serious and hasn't read the book and is like one of those people who complain about things they haven't even bothered to read or watch, well that needs talking about...

Well, the flip side of that coin is that she's very into manga and fantasy in general, which many people would call Satanic. I once witnessed her mother tell her that kids who read "Harry Potter" tend to curse more, and she just rolled her eyes. She's also into Fullmetal Alchemist, which doesn't treat Christianity or religion in general very kindly.

I don't know if she's read The Da Vinci Code. Might be that she's just heard of the main plot point.

Cool. What is Full Metal Alchemist? Sounds like something I might enjoy.

Fullmetal Alchemist is a manga (Japanese comic) and an anime series about a pair of brothers named Edward and Alphonse Elric. These two are alchemists (practice the magic/art/science of altering the physical world, "transmuting" matter into other things). They attempt to use alchemy for a forbidden cause: to bring a human back to life. Their attempt to raise their dead mother fails: Edward loses an arm, and Alphonse loses his entire body. Edward then sacrifices a leg to retrieve his brother's stolen soul and seal it in a suit of armor. FMA chronicles their journey to find the Philosopher's Stone in an attempt to return themselves to their original bodies.

The series kicks off with a very Christian-esque religion that follows the Sun God Leto. Its founder, a miracle-worker called Father Cornello, turns out to be an alchemist whose power is enhanced by a ring he wears. Edward, suspecting the ring to be the Stone, brings the false religion and its fraud founder crashing to the ground. On that same note, the anime series directly references Christianity as an extinct religion that was responsible for many deaths due to their intolerance. Edward Elric claims in the first issue of the manga the position of agnostic scientist who does not believe in unprovable concepts like "God."

The religion aspect is only a small thread of FMA's plot, however; it's more concerned with the Stone, the Homonculi (artificially-created humans with extraordinary powers, whose names are as follows: Lust, Gluttony, Envy, Pride, Wrath, Greed, and Sloth), and a dark-skinned, red-eyed survivor of a destroyed civilization--Scar, who used a twisted form of alchemy to inflict "divine judgment" on State Alchemists (alchemists working for the military, of which Edward Elric is one).

You can find the manga in the "Graphic Novel" section of any major bookstore, priced at about $9.99 per volume (I only own the first two), and you can watch the anime on Saturday at midnight on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim (the ep showing this weekend is Episode 3 of Season One, just after the Cornello story; it tells the background tale of the failed resurrection).