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floyd084

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Am i wrong?
« on: November 04, 2005, 12:55:55 PM »
ID proposes that there muust be an intelligent designer, but never claims who the designer is.  Couldnt the "designer" be nature and its process of designing is random mutations.  Think about this: If i were to design a watch on my first try it probably wouldnt tick.  next try it may be fast or slow, then finally i get it right.  Nature works the same way it keeps trying different designs until one works.  So why cant nature be the designer, its random process and natural selection work great.  Considering it has all the time in the universe. There could be other places that have organisms with much better designs, all because it has had more time for it to transform.
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howlingmeteore

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Re: Am i wrong?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2005, 01:00:56 PM »
Quote from: floyd084
ID proposes that there muust be an intelligent designer, but never claims who the designer is.  Couldnt the "designer" be nature and its process of designing is random mutations.  Think about this: If i were to design a watch on my first try it probably wouldnt tick.  next try it may be fast or slow, then finally i get it right.  Nature works the same way it keeps trying different designs until one works.  So why cant nature be the designer, its random process and natural selection work great.  Considering it has all the time in the universe. There could be other places that have organisms with much better designs, all because it has had more time for it to transform.


I strongly doubt that's what they mean by intelligent design but anybody can reinterpret anything on the basis of its name, some people did this with a lot of things, still you can't just base yourself on the name  :P
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dark territory

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Am i wrong?
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2005, 09:11:30 PM »
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FUSSCCJ

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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2005, 05:31:59 AM »
The designer can
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dark territory

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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2005, 06:40:13 PM »
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Zagzagel

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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2005, 08:11:28 PM »
Quote
ID proposes that there muust be an intelligent designer, but never claims who the designer is.


I think this might be a true statement based on the argument I've read here on this site between certian individuals?

Quote
Couldnt the "designer" be nature and its process of designing is random mutations.


Okay.  Lets go with that.  Here is what you suggest..

Quote
If i were to design a watch on my first try it probably wouldnt tick. next try it may be fast or slow, then finally i get it right. Nature works the same way it keeps trying different designs until one works. So why cant nature be the designer, its random process and natural selection work great.


Alright.  I've thought of what you say here...wouldn't this then amount to some sort of faith to say what you say?

But, besides that, you give the illustration that a watch had a designer who was purposefuly designing by having some conscience.  Sounds a little like some sort of religious thought going on there?

Enough for now..could go on...lets continue from this point...IF you do not mind.
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Realist

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Am i wrong?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2005, 09:28:56 PM »
Hello floyd084, and welcome to the forum.
As you're probably learning fromyour first post, you're going to get a bunch of theological gobbledygook here when you bring up natural evolution. They will try to prove you wrong, but they don't have any tangible arguments to prove they are right either.
Stick to your guns! :smt071
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Zagzagel

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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2005, 09:38:29 PM »
Stick to "his" guns, eh?  Strange advice.  What if he is shooting blanks?  Whos to tell whos shooting blanks?  This will be between me and Realist.  Otherwise, floyd could in the mean time respond to my questions.  Hey, I have two too contend with [biggrin ...that's not fair! :shock:
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TheAtheistHeratic

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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2005, 04:08:10 PM »
Now for the reign of fire from You Know Who.  Who is God's designer? If God dosen't need a designer then the universe does't have to have a designer that is intelligent? Wait lets look at Earth,  If God created the earth then that would mean that Christians should believe in DBAI (Design by an Id*ot) not ID.
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"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." (Washington, D.C., April 1999) [2]

"One of the great achievements of science has been, if not to make it impossible for intelligent people to be religious, then at least to make it possible for them not to be religious. We should not retreat from this accomplishment." (ibid.)
[edit]

Both quotes of Steven Weinberg

dark territory

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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2005, 03:37:38 AM »
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TheAtheistHeratic

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« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2005, 04:09:53 PM »
DT,  actually part of the bible implies that there are other gods. Look at the 10 commandments.
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"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." (Washington, D.C., April 1999) [2]

"One of the great achievements of science has been, if not to make it impossible for intelligent people to be religious, then at least to make it possible for them not to be religious. We should not retreat from this accomplishment." (ibid.)
[edit]

Both quotes of Steven Weinberg

dark territory

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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2005, 11:08:48 PM »
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Copernicus

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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2005, 11:59:12 PM »
Quote from: dark territory
I think the Bible actualy refers to these gods as demons. Idoliters sacrificed to these gods. The ten comandments reference is to make clear. No other God but God who is the ONLY true GOD. If a person believes different they are in violation of the comandment.


DT, that isn't the way most academic Bible scholars interpret the Bible.  In fact, the Hebrew tribes probably practiced monolatry--worship of one god to the exclusion of other existing gods.  Abraham formed a legal agreement (covenant) with his god that he and his descendants would not worship other gods.  This does not mean that he and his progeny failed to believe in other gods.  Jews were probably not monotheists until the jewish tribes became part of the Achaemenian Empire after the fall of Nebuchadrezzar.
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FUSSCCJ

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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2005, 09:54:11 AM »
That
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dark territory

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« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2005, 03:41:27 AM »
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TheAtheistHeratic

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« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2005, 03:50:42 PM »
:-k
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"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." (Washington, D.C., April 1999) [2]

"One of the great achievements of science has been, if not to make it impossible for intelligent people to be religious, then at least to make it possible for them not to be religious. We should not retreat from this accomplishment." (ibid.)
[edit]

Both quotes of Steven Weinberg
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