Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Confused I am.  (Read 1211 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Zagzagel

  • Superior User!!
  • *
  • Feedback: +5/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2962
    • Kats Adventures
Confused I am.
« on: August 10, 2007, 05:18:18 PM »

I've been reading through the thread created by 8d82.  It is titled "Agenda?  What Agenda?"

It was an interesting read, as are all the threads I read through here on this forum.

In this thread, there is the usual "argument" (if I may call it that) by Stat... and then another "strong" athiest buddy comes on board where it fits his/her area of interest.

But where I found confusion in that particular thread is where the "buddy", who is COP (our dear loving friend? haha) comes into play and makes an several interesting statements:

Atheism makes no attempt to prescribe behavior.

So, to answer your question directly, there is nothing about atheism that prevents or promotes a form of behavior, good or bad.

I could provide more quotes, not only from this particular thread, but other quotes from other "athiestic" sources out there beyond this forum.

I was just wondering....

Is this a hypocritical sort of tactic/thing?

I could raise deeper phycological questions but this is shallow enough for now.  haha

Logged
Cheers.  :)  Be well.  Live better!

benjdm

  • Regular User
  • *
  • Feedback: +4/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 231
Re: Confused I am.
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2007, 07:45:44 PM »

But where I found confusion in that particular thread is where the "buddy", who is COP (our dear loving friend? haha) comes into play and makes an several interesting statements:

Atheism makes no attempt to prescribe behavior.

So, to answer your question directly, there is nothing about atheism that prevents or promotes a form of behavior, good or bad.

I could provide more quotes, not only from this particular thread, but other quotes from other "athiestic" sources out there beyond this forum.

I was just wondering....

Is this a hypocritical sort of tactic/thing?

I could raise deeper phycological questions but this is shallow enough for now.  haha


I started to read the thread but I couldn't stand to read the topic.  So I may be missing some context.  But, anyway:

Neither atheism nor theism prescribe behavior.  There are all sorts of theistic ethical frameworks, there are all sorts of atheistic ethical frameworks, and there are others that ignore theism / atheism.  So the statements seem like a simple statement of fact to me.  Christians often compare Christianity to atheism, but this is an apples and oranges comparison.  Atheism can only be fairly compared to theism.  Christianity would have to be compared to secular humanism or an individual atheist's particular positive beliefs.

Am I understanding your question correctly ?
Logged

Copernicus

  • Paramount User!!
  • *
  • Feedback: +30/-18
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2226
    • Naastika Blog
Re: Confused I am.
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2007, 11:37:18 PM »

Hi, Benjdm.

You have understood my comments correctly, and your post here reflects my thinking, too.  I should have thought to point out that theism is similarly amoral.  So that is a good point to add.
Logged
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.  Religion is answers that may never be questioned.  --Anonymous

Zagzagel

  • Superior User!!
  • *
  • Feedback: +5/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2962
    • Kats Adventures
Re: Confused I am.
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2007, 04:45:54 PM »

I'm gonna jump somewhat here so I will ask...

From where does atheism (or such similar thinkers) get their morals?  IF there are no morals, why judge who you think are under the athiestic view?
Logged
Cheers.  :)  Be well.  Live better!

Copernicus

  • Paramount User!!
  • *
  • Feedback: +30/-18
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2226
    • Naastika Blog
Re: Confused I am.
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2007, 01:24:38 PM »

From where does atheism (or such similar thinkers) get their morals?  IF there are no morals, why judge who you think are under the athiestic view?


Zag, atheism, like theism, is amoral.  Morality is given a theological grounding by most theists.  Obedience to the authority of a god or gods comes naturally to people, because we organize ourselves into social hierarchies and we follow behaviors prescribed by those hierarchies.  The idea that a god hands laws down to human rulers goes back at least to the time of Hammurabi, and the commandments delivered to Moses on a stone tablet followed that very common historical template, even up to the point of adopting a few of Hammurabi's laws.  So atheism, per se, has nothing more than theism per se does.  Particular atheists, like particular theists, ground their morality in different ways.  Most atheists tend to be humanists, and they ground their moral behavior in what seems right to them to promote the needs and well-being of human society.

Individual morality is regulated by a conscience, and it is reasonable to ask where we get our sense of "right" and "wrong", as dictated by conscience.  The simple fact is that we get it from our upbringing and our surroundings.  We learn how to behave in such a way that we can interact safely and comfortably with others.  We all tend to share the same rules of engagement, although those rules have changed and evolved in different times and different cultures.  In a religious upbringing, we may be told that the rules come from God rather than human social structures, but the fact is that the rules tend to encourage behavior that society needs to function smoothly and prevent social tension.  Rules governing everything from the regulation of property rights to sexual encounters are all about human interactions.  Atheists and theists alike really tend to ground their feelings in their sense of what makes for a safe, comfortable, and reasonable environment to live in.  If one is religious, it is necessary to ground those rules in the authority of a god.  If one is not religious, then it is necessary to ground them in principles such as empathy, fairness, proportionality, etc.
Logged
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.  Religion is answers that may never be questioned.  --Anonymous

benjdm

  • Regular User
  • *
  • Feedback: +4/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 231
Re: Confused I am.
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2007, 08:20:42 PM »

I'm gonna jump somewhat here so I will ask...

From where does atheism (or such similar thinkers) get their morals?  IF there are no morals, why judge who you think are under the athiestic view?

There's another discussion going on here about the same topic (basically.)  Most of what I would answer is there:

http://sntjohnny.com/smf/index.php?topic=2374.0

Or, the posts of mine that I think would be relevant (if you don't want to read the whole thread):

http://sntjohnny.com/smf/index.php?topic=2374.msg40936#msg40936
http://sntjohnny.com/smf/index.php?topic=2374.msg41074#msg41074
http://sntjohnny.com/smf/index.php?topic=2374.msg41329#msg41329

Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

More Details