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The Sasquatch

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Controviersies in Science
« on: October 26, 2007, 12:29:31 PM »

Hey everyone. I work at Ohio State University, and I've been in several meetings with some people from the department of biology who have started a series of lectures entitled, "Controversies in Science." Basically, it's a guest lecture series centering around the conflicts that naturally arise when new college students encounter scientific principles that seem to conflict with their faith.

Basically, the OSU biology professors found that they had to spend a great deal of time addressing evolution vs creationism in their classrooms and, while they were justified in addressing things from a scientific standpoint, they felt they were doing their students a disservice by leaving the faith issues so open-ended. Rather than leave the students to their own confusion, they worked with the Library, COSI, and several other organizations to present yearly lectures on controversies in Science.

This year, Francis S Collins and many others plan to speak. The previous year's lectures are on the website, and information about this year's series are available here.

**edited to fix URL
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 06:09:48 PM by TheDoctor »
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stathei

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Re: Controviersies in Science
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2008, 08:57:51 PM »

Sasq, there is no "Controversy in Science" regarding evolution. Perhaps they should call their lecture series "Controversies in Fundamental Christianity" :wink: ...
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Copernicus

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Re: Controviersies in Science
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2008, 11:37:43 PM »

Hey, Sasquatch.  It's good to hear that you work at my alma mater--all three of my linguistics degrees were from the OSU linguistics department.  I have many fond memories of my 9 years spent there, although I must also admit that I enjoyed saying "Goodbye, Columbus" when I left for my first job in New York at Columbia University.  When I was a student there, I also worked a couple of summer for the OSU library.
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Re: Controviersies in Science
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2008, 03:09:15 AM »

Sasq, there is no "Controversy in Science" regarding evolution. Perhaps they should call their lecture series "Controversies in Fundamental Christianity" :wink: ...

I'm sorry, has the controversies of abiogenisis, origin of hominid bipedality, and altruism and homosexuality, been resolved when I wasn't looking?
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Copernicus

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Re: Controviersies in Science
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2008, 03:18:32 AM »

I'm sorry, has the controversies of abiogenisis, origin of hominid bipedality, and altruism and homosexuality, been resolved when I wasn't looking?

If you think that these issues pose any challenge whatsoever to the theory of evolution itself, then I would say that you don't know where to look.  ;)
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Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.  Religion is answers that may never be questioned.  --Anonymous

stathei

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Re: Controviersies in Science
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2008, 01:02:38 PM »

Quote
I'm sorry, has the controversies of abiogenisis, origin of hominid bipedality, and altruism and homosexuality, been resolved when I wasn't looking?

Again, these are only "controversial" to Christian Fundamentalists.
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Re: Controviersies in Science
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2008, 01:39:03 PM »

If you think that these issues pose any challenge whatsoever to the theory of evolution itself, then I would say that you don't know where to look.  ;)

You mean besides the fact that it shows not knowing how the process started (and thus not being able to be sure it even did), not being able to find in the fossil record where humans divirge with apes (and thus not sure if they ever had a common ancestor), and the other being direct evidence against the very core of what evolution is all about as we have been so smugly told for centuries.

Obviously these are problems to evolution, but as far as a threat to it itself, I believe that's impossible as it has been clearly shown that evolution is unfalsifiable. Making it more of philosophical belief than science.  :wink:

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Again, these are only "controversial" to Christian Fundamentalists.

Hehehe. Yes, "there is no controversy within the scientific community because anyone who doesn't accept evolution isn't a scientist." What a No true Scottsman fallacy. One reminiscent to what sntjohnny has commented on. Remember Gonzalez!
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Copernicus

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Re: Controviersies in Science
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2008, 02:15:40 PM »

You mean besides the fact that it shows not knowing how the process started (and thus not being able to be sure it even did), not being able to find in the fossil record where humans divirge with apes (and thus not sure if they ever had a common ancestor), and the other being direct evidence against the very core of what evolution is all about as we have been so smugly told for centuries.

Humans have not diverged from apes.  They are a type of ape.  What the fossil record shows is that the hominid line split off from gorillas much earlier than it split off from chimpanzees.  The common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees lived roughly 6 million years ago.  The hominid line then went through many variations until humans emerged as the last surviving variant of that branch.  The fossil evidence is quite clear, overwhelming,  and unambiguous about that.

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Obviously these are problems to evolution, but as far as a threat to it itself, I believe that's impossible as it has been clearly shown that evolution is unfalsifiable. Making it more of philosophical belief than science.  :wink:

There are many ways to falsify the theory of evolution, just as there are to falsify the theory of gravity.  So far, no evidence to the contrary has shown up, but evolution-scoffers remain hopeful--not about evidence against gravity, although they might also rejoice at that discovery, too.  ;)
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stathei

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Re: Controviersies in Science
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2008, 06:12:56 PM »

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Hehehe. Yes, "there is no controversy within the scientific community because anyone who doesn't accept evolution isn't a scientist."

If your cheap soundbite is true, the only people in the world who aren't scientists are American Christian Fundamentalists.
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The Sasquatch

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Re: Controviersies in Science
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2008, 01:11:48 PM »

Stat:

Quote
Sasq, there is no "Controversy in Science" regarding evolution.
Tell that to the scientists who presented.

Quote
Perhaps they should call their lecture series "Controversies in Fundamental Christianity"
What would be the point of that?

__________________________________

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Quote
Hey, Sasquatch.  It's good to hear that you work at my alma mater--all three of my linguistics degrees were from the OSU linguistics department.  I have many fond memories of my 9 years spent there, although I must also admit that I enjoyed saying "Goodbye, Columbus" when I left for my first job in New York at Columbia University.
A Philip Roth fan, eh?

I'm quite looking forward to leaving Columbus one of these days, too. The winters are too cold for my taste, and there isn't much going on if you're not a Buckeyes fan. Still, it's nice to have a paycheck.

So you used to work at the libraries, huh? Maybe we know some of hte same people. Did you have much interaction with the linguistics librarians? I've since moved from the library to the office of research. It's a lot quieter over here, which is strange considering where I came from.

A friend of mine recently got his PhD in sociology and went off to do teaching/research/whatever the heck else it is you academic types do. He studies religious organizations and how they affect the spread of AIDS in Africa. He has lots of tatoos and generally goes around barefoot unless he absolutely has to wear shoes.

_________________________________

Everyone:

Going back to the original post, I would like to point out that, while they started with evolution, the intention was to spread into other controversial areas each year. What I liked about the discussions I had with the people inovled was the open-ness with which they presented themselves. There was no name calling, no ad hominems, no senselss railing against the "other side." There was a genuine search for truth coupled with an obvious sense of humility about one's opinions. Even when people disagreed, they believed they could learn something. It was civil. That's an attitude you don't often see with these issues.


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Copernicus

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Re: Controviersies in Science
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2008, 11:10:34 PM »

So you used to work at the libraries, huh? Maybe we know some of hte same people. Did you have much interaction with the linguistics librarians? I've since moved from the library to the office of research. It's a lot quieter over here, which is strange considering where I came from.

Actually, I worked one summer in pre-cataloging, dealing mostly with Slavic acquisitions.  That was when I came across a book in the pre-cat stacks on Soviet linguistics that later served as a major influence on my masters thesis and doctoral dissertation.  The next summer I moved into Slavic cataloging, but the man I worked for, Mr. Talat, would now be long retired.  He was Polish, and he tended to catalog any book on Polish mathematics or history ahead of any Russian texts.  The Russian department was furious with him, because he had a huge backlog of Russian books.  He hired me, because my father was Polish, but I also had strong ties with the Russian department.  So Mr. Talat taught me to catalog Russian books, which he had no interest in, and the Russian department was ecstatic with the breakthrough.  I even cataloged some Sanskrit books, because I was the only employee who could read devanagari, and I understood the significance of the books that they had shelved.  Ultimately, Mr. Talat was reprimanded for having taught someone without a library science degree to catalog books, but it was fun while it lasted.

Anyway, that was my sole experience with library science, and I really enjoyed it.  The Ohio State University library remains one of my fond memories of my college days.
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Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.  Religion is answers that may never be questioned.  --Anonymous
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