Topic: Creation/Evolution (Read 4508 times)

Yankee · « **on:** January 16, 2006, 04:26:06 AM »

Did you ever wonder why God, who is supposed to be loving and merciful, created Adam and Eve as male and female, of which they were unaware, put them in Eden with two trees, the tree of life and the tree of knowledge, to tempt them, and when they fell for it, evicted them? We wouldn't put our babies in a playpen with a box of chocolates and punish them for eating some. The explanation, of course, is that the temptation was for Satan, not Adam and Eve. When God gave Satan this solar system as his kingdom, He knew that Satan was overly ambitious and evil, knew what he would do, and set the stage to stop him.

Satan could not create life, but he was the original genetic engineer. Thus, evolution came into being. He fooled around with dinosaurs for millions of years, decided he wanted beings in his own image, which was God's image, to worship him, so he got rid of the dinosaurs and started the long evolution of lower forms of life into homo sapiens. All this time, Adam and Eve were in Eden blissfully unaware of what was going on outside. When the evolved man reached a point in development where he was able to function as a thinking person looking for a deeper meaning in life, God allowed Adam and Eve to succumb to Satan's tempting. Notice that he tempted them with the tree of knowledge, not the tree of life, because he knew that once out of Eden they would begin to age and would eventually die, and he wanted them DEAD, because they were God's, and he did not want anything of God's on Earth. God had made Adam and Eve as male and female, because once out of Eden, they would have to be indistinguishable from the evolved humans, who needed sex to reproduce.

Adam and Eve did not bring sin out of Eden; it was already here, only it would not ever have been recognized as sin without their being sent out. What they brought into the world was God's law. Adam and Eve were not punished for sinning, they were a sacrafice along with all their descendants, including Jesus, to save the Gentiles. Because, of course, the Jews, as descendants of Adam and Eve, were created, and the Gentiles, who would not be saved without this sacrafice, were evolved. And yes, I am a Gentile, without a drop of Jewish blood so far as I know, and I accept the fact that I am evolved from a lower form of life.

If Satan had not tempted Adam and Eve, they would never have known that they could have children, and Jesus would not have been born. It is likely that Satan did not know that they could have children when he tempted them. He just wanted to get rid of them. But in so doing, he set into play the seeds of his own destruction.

God gave Satan many opportunities to save himself. When He had Noah build the Ark, if Satan had not interfered, all the evolved humans would have died in the flood, and there would have been no reason for Christ's coming, but I am satisfied that there was a second Ark floating around out there with evolved humans on it. The "Epic of Gilgamesh" could very well be the historical record of this.

Read the Bible with both creation and evolution in mind, and there are no contradictions in it. The Old Testament is a history of the Jews, with the Gentiles always off in the distance because they were considered unclean. The New Testament brings the unclean ones into the fold, and the Jews are no longer banned from breaking bread with them. Once Jesus was born , it was unnecessary to keep the two separated.

There was a time, before Jesus was born when the Jews were starting to cohabit with the Gentiles, but Jesus could not have tainted blood in his line, which is the reason Joseph ended up in Egypt with his family. The Egyptians were more prejudiced than the Jews (Hebrews) about intermarriage, so the line was kept pure. Only Joseph, because pharaoh liked him, was allowed to marry an Egyptian. But while he kept Jesus' line of descendancy pure, he was not in it because the Egyptians are Gentiles. So the Jews spent 400 years in Egypt growing as a nation, keeping their bloodline pure. They became slaves, but slavery was preferable to miscegenation.

The reason Satan will be allowed to come back for a short time after a thousand years is to give the souls who chose to go with him a second chance to be saved. For those who are loyal to him, it will be the bottomless pit, which is falling forever into the endlessness of space, completely isolated from other souls.

Anthony Horvath · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2006, 09:50:57 AM »

So, do you believe this?

What are your sources, if you do?

preachinjesus · « **Reply #2 on:** January 16, 2006, 03:58:55 PM »

isn't it interesting that the command to "be fruitful and multiply" was given before their removal from the Garden of Eden...

Yankee · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2006, 04:00:08 PM »

Don't threaten me. I didn't choose Yankee for nothing! And if you notice, my eMail is German for The Old Bat.

My source is mainly Genesis and my own ability to think. Perhaps it was a revelation, who knows?? What I do know is that it makes more sense than any other interpretation I have ever heard.

The whole focus of the Old Testament is keeping the Jews separate from the Gentiles so that Christ's line would have no Gentile (e.g. evolved)blood in it. Esau was the older, but he was married to a Gentile, therefore he had to lose his inheritance. Tamar, who is the only woman listed in the Bible in Christ's line, was supposed to marry a son of (I can't think of the father's name right now), but his mother was a Gentile. She ended up seducing the father, who though he had married a Gentile, had pure blood himself. And so it goes. I had started writing a book on, this listing the passages in the Bible which I used as a reference, but I have misplaced it.

Circumcision was merely a method of telling the Jews from the Gentiles. Women who had sex with Gentiles were put to death. If the Gentiles were descended from Adam and Eve, why were they ostracized?

The woman of Samaria who told Christ that even the dogs got the crumbs from the master's table was referring to the fact that Gentiles were not recognized as descendants of Adam and Eveand had no claim to salvation.

When Christ said that he had come to save his own, if the Gentiles had descended from Adam and Eve, why would they not have been his own? When he preached to his own, why did God close their eyes and ears so that they would not believe him, if he had come to save them? He came to save the Gentiles, only he had to do it in a roundabout way because they belonged to Satan. The Jews were already saved. They were the sacrafice from Adam and Eve on down sent to save the Gentiles.

Paul said that in Heaven, first it would be the Jews and then the Gentiles in order of precedence, a clear reference that the Gentiles were from a different source.

Since the Gentiles were Satan's, they had to consciously make a choice to cross the bridge to Christianity. That's all it takes. Any sin can be forgiven, except a sin against the Holy Spirit.

There are many passages in the Bible that make sense only if they are read from the standpoint that Jews were created and Gentiles evolved. There is physical evidence of evolution, and we have to take creation on faith, but as I stated, the fact that Israel became a nation again after almost 2,000 years as the Bible foretold, is enough to give me that faith.

Yankee · « **Reply #4 on:** January 16, 2006, 04:04:12 PM »

I just realized that I am spelling sacrifice incorectly. I hate getting old and losing my brain cells.

Yankee · « **Reply #5 on:** January 16, 2006, 04:05:39 PM »

Yep. And I left an "r" out of incorrectly, too!

Anthony Horvath · « **Reply #6 on:** January 16, 2006, 04:08:04 PM »

"Don't threaten me. I didn't choose Yankee for nothing! And if you notice, my eMail is German for The Old Bat."

You may end up being a blum'n lunatic and fantastic kook, but I will love you forever for this quote.

Yankee · « **Reply #7 on:** January 16, 2006, 04:52:18 PM »

preachin jesus:

Adam and Eve spent millions of years in Eden and didn't have any offspring until they were evicted. They didn't know that they could until they ate fruit from the tree of life which gave them the knowledge that they had the paraphernalia to have sex. And they were evicted soon after. Once they knew that they could have offspring, they were told to go ahead and do so.

If Satan had not tempted them, they would never have known, and Christ would not have been born, and Satan would not ever be destroyed. God set them up, and I had to find an explanation for why a loving God would play a dirty trick like that! (Would he play dirty tricks on us about Heaven?) When I started thinking along those lines, the answer became obvious. God's focus was on what Satan was planning, and he put Adam and Eve on the Earth he gave Satan, probably to be a thorn in his side. If he left them alone, he would live to rule the world any way he liked. If he tempted them then it would bring about Christ's birth and his own destruction. He would certainly have tempted them many times over the millions of years they were there, but God didn't allow them to succumb until the Gentiles had evolved to the point where they would be indistinguishable from each other.

Payl said,"Those who do not know the law are not under the law." Or words to that effect. If Adam and Eve had not brought God's law out of Eden, His law would not be here to guide us and law of the type that Saddam Hussein ruled under would prevail all over the world. And what is considered sin by Christians would be accceptable.

Speaking of Saddam Hussein, that brings up the Arabs. Abraham's oldest son, Ishmael was the progenitor of the Arabs. He could not inherit as the oldest because his mother, Hagar, was an Egyptian, a Gentile. However, there was jealousy there that prevails to this day, and the Arabs are determined to eradicate the Jews. I would say that it is certain that the Anti-Christ is an Arab, because when he makes his appearance, he will be accepted by both sides. I can see the Jews accepting an Arab "Christ", but the Arabs would never accept a Jewish one. He most certainly won't ge a Gentile because we are not descended from Adam and Eve.

IronRod · « **Reply #8 on:** January 16, 2006, 05:03:56 PM »

Yankee, Welcome
I must admit this thought of creation /evolution is very interesting. I want to share some of what I believe in regards to some of your sentences.

Yankee · « **Reply #9 on:** January 16, 2006, 05:53:44 PM »

You are not taking into account that there is ironclad, incontrovertible evidence of evolution. The battle has been whether we are all created or all evolved. I believe in evolution because I have read too many books on too many finds not to. I believe in creation, because I can look into the sky and can't even begin to encompass the endlessness of space, and the possibilities of what atoms can do. And I look at events in the Middle East and am not the least surprised at what is happening there, because the Bible has already said it was going to long ago.

There are too many statements made in the Bible that make sense only if one reads them from the "Jews created/Gentiles evolved" standpoint, starting with Genesis. I believe that this knowledge was hidden from us deliberately, because the Gentiles have used the Jews badly enough while thinking we were from the same source. The time is at hand, however, for this country not to be turned away from supporting Israel, and people
should know why, if they are intelligent enough to accept it.

Twenty years ago, I thought of the Bible's statement that there would be churches, but they would not be Christian, and I wondered how such a strong country as ours could be destroyed. I am watching it happen. We have invading hordes, called immigrants, swarming in from every direction. They will become citizens, but they will never be Americans. They are coming in such large blocks that they can't possibly be assimilated, and they are coming from countries that have never had a stable government, and if one had been handed to them, they would have destroyed it in three months. They will certainly destroy ours. I believe that the reason this country became a nation was to protect Israel when she became a nation again. Perhaps the time of our mission is over, and we are no longer needed for that purpose. Christ said that the generation that saw Israel become a nation again would also see the last days. I am that generation, and at 74, I figure it is going to have to hurry, because, obviously, I don't have that much time left.

I see the Supreme Court's decision on eminent domain as the first step in destroying the Constitution. My prediction is, if the world lasts that long, that by the end of this century, there will be no such thing as private ownership of property. Only the very rich will have detached homes, and everyone else will be living in high rise apartment buildings, and the private farm will have faded in history. Any blocks of land will be owned by conglomerates. We will look like a large Hong Kong.

Zagzagel · « **Reply #10 on:** January 16, 2006, 09:07:53 PM »

Hi. Yankee wrote:

Quote

When Christ said that he had come to save his own, if the Gentiles had descended from Adam and Eve, why would they not have been his own? When he preached to his own, why did God close their eyes and ears so that they would not believe him, if he had come to save them? He came to save the Gentiles, only he had to do it in a roundabout way because they belonged to Satan. The Jews were already saved. They were the sacrafice from Adam and Eve on down sent to save the Gentiles.

Tricky fella, that Jesus was, eh? This certianly fooled me

Quote

the fact that Israel became a nation again after almost 2,000 years as the Bible foretold, is enough to give me that faith.

And where in the bible was this foretold?

Yankee · « **Reply #11 on:** January 16, 2006, 11:55:57 PM »

GeeGee,

Well, let's face it; people are easily fooled. Why should you be different?

It's too late at night for me to go looking up where Jesus said that Israel would be a nation again. I will check it out tomorrow and let you know. There are many who can quote "chapter and verse" from the Bible. I am not one of them.

The people who wrote the Bible didn't tell us everything. They made it clear that the Gentiles were not fit to associate with the Hebrews, but they didn't come right out and say, "You guys are the result of genetic engineering by Satan". It is there, though, if you are perceptive enough to see it.

I am not interested in adding to the Bible, or taking anything away from it. I believe that every word in it is the truth. My curiosity, however makes me ask why certain things were done or said. I have come up with an explanation that is credible, that would get rid of the creation or evolution controversy. I don't expect people to believe me. I don't think they are ready. The creation people will say that I am doing Satan's work. The evolution people will say that I am a flake for giving creation credence. I don't really care. You can sit there and jeer at me, but if you are capable of deep thought, then you will open the Bible and read, at least, Genesis, and know that what I am saying is not outlandish. Over forty years ago, I joined Mensa when it was first organized. The only thing I got from it was the realization that my thoughts and ideas were not necessarily nutty just because someone who was not able to think beyond his (or her) nose said so. So I stopped deferring to people who put me down. I joined this group for serious discussion, not for tee-hees. If that is all you are capable of, then I will go elsewhere.

Yankee · « **Reply #12 on:** January 17, 2006, 02:08:16 AM »

Quote from: sntjohnny

"Don't threaten me. I didn't choose Yankee for nothing! And if you notice, my eMail is German for The Old Bat."

You may end up being a blum'n lunatic and fantastic kook, but I will love you forever for this quote.

Watch it, Kid. When I go to war, I don't take prisoners!

Yankee · « **Reply #13 on:** January 17, 2006, 02:32:21 AM »

IronRod

valerie · « **Reply #14 on:** January 17, 2006, 07:52:29 AM »

Quote

You are not taking into account that there is ironclad, incontrovertible evidence of evolution.

I am no expert on evolution. However, considering the ramifications of apes evolving to humans, shouldn't humans evolved to something else by now? Also, it is interesting that Noah, Adam and the like lived for hundreds of years, yet people today live at most around 100. Doesn't that seem contrary to evolution? Futhermore, if Jews were made by God and Gentiles by Satan how come we are so much alike? Wouldn't we be incredibly different?

Anthony Horvath · « **Reply #15 on:** January 17, 2006, 08:49:28 AM »

Val, there is equivocation on the word 'evolution' going on. As you point out, there is also incontrovertible evidence of stasis, too. Tricky situation. Reference Niles Eldridge and Stephen J Gould.

"Watch it, Kid. When I go to war, I don't take prisoners!"

I think I love this guy.

Anthony Horvath · « **Reply #16 on:** January 17, 2006, 11:51:04 AM »

http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200601/200601160010.html

While we're on the subject.

Ragnar · « **Reply #17 on:** January 17, 2006, 11:54:57 AM »

Quote from: valerie

Quote
You are not taking into account that there is ironclad, incontrovertible evidence of evolution.

I am no expert on evolution. However, considering the ramifications of apes evolving to humans, shouldn't humans evolved to something else by now?

No, because homo sapiens have only been around for about a million years. That's not long enough for anything really noticeable to happen in evolutionary terms. Get back to me in about 100 million years and we'll see if anything interesting has happened yet.

Quote from: valerie

Also, it is interesting that Noah, Adam and the like lived for hundreds of years, yet people today live at most around 100. Doesn't that seem contrary to evolution?

The only place people live hundreds of years are in Bible stories, which are not the most objective accounts of human lifespans. Over the past several thousand years, the average age has gone from around 30 to about 75. This probably has more to do with better healthcare, and that we've mostly eliminated the problems of big scary things trying to eat us (carnivores) and little scary things trying to eat us (pestilence), but it meshes nicely with evolution.

Quote from: valerie

Futhermore, if Jews were made by God and Gentiles by Satan how come we are so much alike? Wouldn't we be incredibly different?

On this and much of the rest of Yankee's points, I think he happens to be a flaming lunatic. More coherent than wooly, and therefore slightly more amusing, but a flaming lunatic nonetheless.

Anthony Horvath · « **Reply #18 on:** January 17, 2006, 12:06:32 PM »

"No, because homo sapiens have only been around for about a million years. That's not long enough for anything really noticeable to happen in evolutionary terms. Get back to me in about 100 million years and we'll see if anything interesting has happened yet."

In other words, the thing that you are saying is the real explanation cannot be verified by direct observation.

That's like saying, "Given process x and y and z, you will get d" and me reponding,

"Well, let's see d, then."

And you responding, yes, but given this theory, xyz take millions of years, which none of us will ever survive, so we can never actually see 'd'.

To which I reply, that's very interesting. Perhaps you are right. But I wouldn't turn around and say there is "incontrovertible evidence of evolution" as Yankee said, and most evolutionists and atheists say.

Anthony Horvath · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2006, 12:13:39 PM »

"The only place people live hundreds of years are in Bible stories, which are not the most objective accounts of human lifespans. Over the past several thousand years, the average age has gone from around 30 to about 75."

I have posted on this forum a link saying that a lifespan up to 150 years and older is completely possible. I also don't see why the Bible isn't 'objective' on the point. What agenda does it have to inflate the ages of humans?

"This probably has more to do with better healthcare, and that we've mostly eliminated the problems of big scary things trying to eat us (carnivores) and little scary things trying to eat us (pestilence),"

And perhaps genetic corruptions, or exposure to radiation, and other leading causes of aging. If it seems that a removal of these factors allows someone to live to be 969 years, will you still say

"but it meshes nicely with evolution." ?????

I'm curious about how what you said makes anything 'mesh' nicely with evolution. Wouldn't evolution actually select for people or organisms that lived longer, especially if they have relatively slow reproductive cycles like humans do? That way they'd have a longer period of reproduction.

Or is it a tenet of evolution that living things absolutely MUST die? Or is it actually merely an observation that living things DO die?

Anyway, I don't understand your argument. I would think animals with the ability to live longer and therefore reproduce more would be a very obvious selection pressure. Much more obvious, then say, "An appreciation for poetry." And yet people appreciate poetry, which must have been selected for somehow somewhere. It seems to me that it would be difficult to select for poetry appreciation, but relatively easy to select for living longer and reproducing more.

Why do we have the hard thing and not the easy thing?

Author Topic: Creation/Evolution (Read 4508 times)