Topic: Creation/Evolution (Read 4508 times)

Yankee · « **Reply #40 on:** January 17, 2006, 11:15:08 PM »

Well, that remains to be seen. However, there has been a quite a lot of discussion about evolution already on this thread that poses as a refution to your beliefs. I think sntjohnny has some points that you should re-read. Futhermore there are other threads on evolution that you might enjoy reading. After all, your not alone in believing in evolution. Or perhaps you thought you were and hence the defensive position? Although, others have brought up a good deal of documentation to support their beliefs. I still have yet to see any from you.

Frankly, I haven't seen one thing that would prove me wrong. I've given you more that shows that creation AND evolution are a real possibility than you have given to show that it is not. Neither side is going to be a clear winner. I don't expect anyone to say, "oh, wow, you're right". I am merely pointing out that I believe something that no one else is willing to concede is even a possibility.

As to my telling people something about myself, I think in any debate that it is good to know where people are coming from and why they take the positions they do. Talking heads are just talking heads and stand for nothing unless they show that they have something to stand for. If you want to be totally anonymous, fine, hide behind your computer keys. You are you, but don't try to prevent me from being me.

valerie · « **Reply #41 on:** January 18, 2006, 06:42:51 AM »

Quote from: Yankee

Considering the fact that Adam didn't know that he could be a father until he ate of the Tree of Knowledge, how did he know that Eve could be a mother when she got her name? They were naked in Eden (that is in the Bible), but weren't conscious of the significance until they ate the fruit, at which point they covered themselves.
Quote

Fine, let's take the scripture in context of time. Adam called her Eve, the mother of all living in verse 20 of chapter 3. This was AFTER they ate of the tree of knowledge (see verses 6-7). Perhaps I am missing your point. He still called her the "mother of all living" before they were driven out of Eden. I don't see how your comment invalidates Eve as the mother of all.

Quote
Therefore Eve could have been the mother of all living until the Gentiles got saved.

Now your saying that people not from Eve were not living souls? Could you provide some scriptural support for this (a book and verse would be nice)?

More biblical proof of GOD creating all mankind...
Gen. 1: 27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

God doesn't say he just created the Jews. Which by the way didn't even exist at the time. In fact the Abrahamic covenant wasn't even in place to make a nation of Israel.

Gen. 6: 7
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

You will note the above scripture is before the flood and AFTER Eden.

Still waiting for any possible documentation you have in support of your beliefs.

Yankee · « **Reply #42 on:** January 19, 2006, 01:27:13 AM »

Still waiting for any possible documentation you have in support of your beliefs.[/quote]

Genesis: Chapter 6,Verses 1 through 4

When men began to multiply on earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of heaven saw how beautiful the daughters of man were, and so they took for their wives as many of them as they chose. Then the Lord said: "My spirit shall not remain in man forever, since he is but flesh. His days shall comprise one hundred and twenty years."

At that time the Nephilim appeared on earth (as well as later), after the sons of man had intercourse with the daughters of man, who bore them sons. They were the heroes of old, the men of renown.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I find these verses significant in at least two ways. The first is that The sons of heaven, i.e. the descendants of Adam and Eve, were marrying the daughters of man. Now there were just 10 generations from Adam and Eve, not time enough for any of them not to be considered, also, the sons of heaven. The Bible is saying that God brought the Flood because of this wickedness. Why was it wicked unless the daughters of man were the result of evolution and not from Adam and Eve?

Why are the Nephilim even mentioned? It says that they are the heroes of old. The Bible is very terse in its narration, and every verse is important. Why is this one important? Why would the Nephilim be any older than the 10 generations of Adam and Eve unless they had been here before them? We are being told something here that, evidently, hasn't been picked up before.

It says they appeared on earth, (as well as later) but it also says they were the "heroes of old". Why bother? This was the time right before the flood. Supposedly, there was no "later" for anyone except Noah and his family. To me, that is a clear indication that there was a second Ark.

The first chance God gave Satan to save himself was when He put Adam and Eve in Eden. If Satan had not tempted them, they would still be there and God's law would not be on earth, and Christ would not have been born.

The second time was when He decided to wipe out everyone and everything with the Flood. If Satan had allowed all the evolved humans to be destroyed, then there would have been no need for Christ to be born. God probably told him that the Flood was coming and that he was going to have Noah build the Ark. I figure he hustled right over to the Nephilim and told them to build an ark, too. He wasn't going to let millions of years of evolution go to waste. It would explain why the (as well as later) of the Nephilim.

Someone previously asked why our lifespans had been shortened. In Verse 3 Chapter 6, it is shortened to one hundred and twenty years.

In Genesis, Chapter 4, Verses 14 through 17, Cain says that if he is banished from God's sight and must become a restless wanderer, then anyone could kill him on sight. Who would "anyone" be? Surely not his family who were supposed to be the only people on earth, they weren't out there wandering around, but obviously, there was someone who was.

Yankee · « **Reply #43 on:** January 26, 2006, 03:44:36 AM »

Quote

Therefore Eve could have been the mother of all living until the Gentiles got saved.

Now your saying that people not from Eve were not living souls? Could you provide some scriptural support for this (a book and verse would be nice)? [quote:Valerie]

Haven't you read about Christ's ministry? All through it He specifies that he came to save His own. The Gentiles were not included in this. The Jews were not allowed to "break bread" or socialize with them until after Christ died. The Jews did not turn from Christ on their own, God closed their ears so that they wouldn't hear and believe. That gave Christ the chance to turn to the Gentiles. I don't know the verse, but it's there and I'm sure you can find it.

More biblical proof of GOD creating all mankind...
Gen. 1: 27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. [quote: Valerie]

When God created A&E they WERE all mankind. Evolution hadn't taken place yet. He also created the life that Satan was given to produce what he wanted to populate the earth with. So God is the creator of all life on earth.

God doesn't say he just created the Jews. Which by the way didn't even exist at the time. In fact the Abrahamic covenant wasn't even in place to make a nation of Israel. [quote: Valerie]

I use Jews as a generic term to define the descendants of A&E who did not mix with the Gentiles and who will be the major protagonists in the final battle. The Arabs are also descendants of A&E, albeit they were never pure blooded, as their first ancestor was Hagar, an Egyptian. They will be the other side in the final battle. We will be involved, but our importance will be secondary. It's already shaping up; take a good look at the Middle East.

Gen. 6: 7
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.You will note the above scripture is before the flood and AFTER Eden. [quote; Valerie]

And God did that. But the Bible doesn't tell us everything. What would people be thinking now if the Bible had added the statement, "and everyone that Satan brought about from my gift to him of the power to manipulate life on earth". Think seriously about it. Could we have handled it? I do not believe God intended to make us party to his plan to let Satan destroy himself. We are lucky that He is giving us salvation.

Still waiting for any possible documentation you have in support of your beliefs.[/quote]

I think my previous post gives all the documentation needed to show that the Bible does say that the sons of God and the sons of man were from two different sources, and that God was angry enough about them inter-marrying to bring about the Flood to destroy them all. Obviously, the daughters of man were not fit for the sons of Heaven to marry. Why, unless they were not of God's making?

Since it has been several days, I gather that you haven't been able to find anything to refute that documentation.

Zagzagel · « **Reply #44 on:** January 27, 2006, 05:08:00 PM »

Quote

I think my previous post gives all the documentation needed to show that the Bible does say that the sons of God and the sons of man were from two different sources, and that God was angry enough about them inter-marrying to bring about the Flood to destroy them all. Obviously, the daughters of man were not fit for the sons of Heaven to marry. Why, unless they were not of God's making?

Yankee. I believe there is a biblical answer for this, other than the one you are proposing. And I don't think reading between the lines is necessary to show it, either. At least, that is my understanding/opinion. Do you want to discuss it?

Yankee · « **Reply #45 on:** January 30, 2006, 04:33:32 AM »

Yankee. I believe there is a biblical answer for this, other than the one you are proposing. And I don't think reading between the lines is necessary to show it, either. At least, that is my understanding/opinion. Do you want to discuss it?[/quote]

GeeGee, I am always ready to discuss just about anything.

I am curious to know your interpretation of Genesis, Chapter 6, verses 1 through 4. I had written you a whole page, but when I tried to print it, the computer kicked me offline and I lost the whole thing. I am too tired to go through it again right now, so I will wait for your view and we will go from there. I promise that I will take what you say with serious consideration.

Zagzagel · « **Reply #46 on:** January 31, 2006, 10:01:32 PM »

Yankee. What IF there is a rational explanation to the chapter and verse you asked me to look at?

What IF these witings were explaining what was happening to the children of faith vs the children of the flesh?

What IF these scriptures were explaining to us that their was a mixing of faith vs those of no faith? The differing children that find throughout scripture?

I do believe that scripture can and does explain itself, and our common sense will and should agree. And I think that this scripture does explain itself in a reasonable way.

G.

Yankee · « **Reply #47 on:** February 01, 2006, 02:27:16 AM »

Quote from: geegee

Yankee. What IF there is a rational explanation to the chapter and verse you asked me to look at?

What IF these witings were explaining what was happening to the children of faith vs the children of the flesh?[quote geegee]

Geegee, the children of the faith would be A&E's offspring, and the children of the flesh would be the evolved.

What IF these scriptures were explaining to us that their was a mixing of faith vs those of no faith? The differing children that find throughout scripture? [quote geegee]

What would be a greater difference between them than that one group was from God and the other evolved from Satan's genetic engineering?
Let me give you a scenario to show you what happened, and why.

God created many sons in his image, one of whom was Satan. He gave each of them a solar system to rule over, and He gave Satan this one. He gave each son great powers, withholding only the power to create life and to make life everlasting. While the other sons were obedient to God, Satan envied Him and wanted His power. Knowing this, God set up the means to stop Satan when he went too far in this ambition.

The means God used to stop Satan was Adam & Eve. God created them, and He created an environment for them to live in comfortably. But their whole purpose in being created was to be a temptation to Satan. While Satan could visit them, he couldn't make them leave unless he could entice them to eat the fruit from one of the trees. Gold had told them that if they ate fruit from the tree of knowledge that they would die. He didn't mean die from poisoning, but that they would start to age and die when their bodies grew too old and feeble to survive. So long as they stayed in Eden they would not age.

For millions of years, Satan took advantage of the powers God had given him over life on earth and started the evolutionary process. He brought about the age of dinosaurs, but all the while he wanted people like A&E, who were in God's image to worship him. Adam and Eve were inviolate, and he hated them because they were God's. So he destroyed the dinosaurs and started the evolution of man. When his intelligent design came to fruition, he tempted A&E, and because that was in God's timetable, they succumbed and ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. Satan did not offer them fruit from the Tree of Life because he wanted them to die. The whole purpose of their being made male and female was so that when Satan tempted them and they would go out of Eden, they would be indistinguishable from the evolved humans. They did not bring sin into the world, they brought God's law. They and all their descendants were a sacrifice.

If Satan had not tempted them, they would still be in Eden, still not know they could produce offspring, and Christ would not have been born. Satan blew the chance God gave him to save himself.

After a length of time I have to re-connect with the Internet, so I will add more in a new post. otherwise I'll lose everything I wrote.

Yankee · « **Reply #48 on:** February 01, 2006, 03:29:12 AM »

Quote from: Yankee

Quote from: geegee
Yankee. What IF there is a rational explanation to the chapter and verse you asked me to look at?
[quote geegee]

Which would be more rational to a Christian, a world brought about as I have stated and for the reasons I have stated, or a world brought about by a capricious, mischievous, and malicious God who created a man and a woman who didn't know that they were only to punish them when they found out? A God who would send them out in the world to suffer getting old, suffer with sickness, and suffer dying? As God said, He could create descendants for anyone more numerous than the stars, so why make us go through the birth process? We wouldn't put our babies in a playpen with a box of chocolates just so we could punish them for eating them, so why would our Heavenly Father do that to us? There had to be a better explanation, and I believe that I have found it.

Until Christ's crucifixion, the Gentiles are not considered fit to associate with. Even we sinful humans are more tolerant than that. Actually, the intent when Adam & Eve were created was to bring the Gentiles into God's family, because God knew that Satan would bring us about. Christ wasn't born right away after they left Eden. There was time given for Satan to have other chances to save himself. Because Christ's line of descendancy could not have Gentile blood in it, there could not be intermarriage. That was the reason for the ban on miscegenation; not to keep different nationalities from mixing, but to prevent created blood from mixing with evolved blood.

In reading the Old Testament on the generations that brought about Christ, you'll find that in every instance where the obvious heir was married to a Gentile, the role was given to another. It was written in a way that used some human generated excuse, but the result was always the heir losing out. Esau, Ishmael, Joseph, to name three. Tamar is a prime example of a winner. Who would guess in reading these stories that the intent behind them was to make sure that Christ's human forefathers had no Gentile blood in them?

If you can present a more rational reason for us all being here, I would like to hear it.

Zagzagel · « **Reply #49 on:** February 03, 2006, 01:13:57 PM »

Hi, Yankee.

I will first say that I do believe that out of A&E God made the whole family of the earth. There is scriptural support for me saying this. But I also know that I do not understand everything. My own "common" sense then helps me to put the picture together...just as it did you. But I can be wrong and don't necessarily have a problem with that. After all, I was not there, in the beginnings, when this all took place.

Now, you did say some things that are interesting, and I want to comment on this by going over the Genisis story, if you don't mind.

Do you think that A&E were made/created perfect?

Just a question for a starting point, then we can build on that.

G.

Yankee · « **Reply #50 on:** February 04, 2006, 04:23:20 AM »

Do you think that A&E were made/created perfect? geegee.[/quote]

I hadn't thought about that before, but yes, I think that they were perfect until they left Eden and started to age. I believe that they were in Eden for millions of years; all the while that evolution was taking place in the rest of the world. They were certainly innocent. They had no idea of the role that God had created them for. Their hormones were not activated until they ate the fruit.

I have difficulty with the concept of time. Einstein said that time is energy and I can understand that since I have reached the age where I need 72 hours to get in a 24 hour day. As a child, the week before Christmas took at least 3 months. Now it is here three months before I am ready for it. So, were Adam and Eve bored with living so long, or was the time compressed for them? In living forever, will we be aware of every moment, or will time be compressed for us, too?

Author Topic: Creation/Evolution (Read 4508 times)