Topic: Evolution (Read 8709 times)

Ragnar · « **Reply #80 on:** January 26, 2006, 10:25:24 AM »

Ragnar, don't you get tired of printing that Ayn Rand quote with every post? I would hate to be that slavish to one other human's point of view. The Yankee philosophy is that if someone can't walk on water and has to go to the bathroom like all other living creatures, then we aren't impressed. The Blind Willie one isn't so hard to take if one looks at it from the POV that we are our minds since it is our souls that do the thinking. And it is our souls that will still survive when our bodies have died.

As a thinking soul, give your own views, not someone else's.

I'm not sure if you're under the impression that I type those quotes out each time I post, or if you're wondering if I'm growing tired of seeing them on all of my posts. Just in case, since I see that you don't have a signature - You can create a signature by clicking on profile on the menu at the top. The signature is added to each post automatically.

I've had the Rand quote there from when I first joined. I said a long time ago that when I first read Rand, it was like reading my own thoughts in a more cohesive form. I didn't decide to become an Objectivist, I already was an Objectivist but didn't have a name for it until I read Rand. I like the quote because it is a good summation of her philosophy, and my own.

Blind Willy was a deeply religious and spiritual Blues guitar singer - I just like his music.

The line comes from his song "Soul of a Man." I don't remember the full verse that the line I quoted is from, but the chorus of the song is:

"Can anybody tell me,
answer if you can,
want someone to tell me,
just what is the soul of a man?"

TheAtheistHeratic · « **Reply #81 on:** January 26, 2006, 04:11:42 PM »

I was making a joke of a group who does believe the earth is flat, but i do not think they are actually called FEC.

Realist · « **Reply #82 on:** January 27, 2006, 08:30:21 PM »

Quote from: sntjohnny

I'm more of an anti-evolutionist. In other words, you can take ID and Creationism (and whatever else) off the table, leaving only evolution, and I'd still throw it out. I'd rather declare myself agnostic then accept evolution.

Thats kind of like saying you disagree with the mathematical theory that 2 plus 2 equals 4, so faced with the inevitable you disregard the obvious.

Anthony Horvath · « **Reply #83 on:** January 27, 2006, 09:06:04 PM »

No, actually it'd be like being presented with "I'm smarter than you and we came up with this theory, and we think its evidence is really good, and we want you to pretend the evidence doesn't in fact suck. Can you do that?" and saying "Sorry, I'm not going to believe you just because you've got a fancy PhD."

Yankee · « **Reply #84 on:** February 01, 2006, 04:16:32 AM »

But the scientific method isn't very useful in the case of, for example, demonstrating the existence of a past historical figure, or a past historical event. Nor can you use the scientific method to determine if such an event was inevitable or if maybe it could have turned out otherwise. You cannot re-create all of the circumstances from a past event, over and over and over again, in order to see if the result was inevitable or could ahve been different. [quote johnny]

Since the Christian past can't be proved scientifically, look at the present. In particular, the Middle East. Christ said that Israel would be a nation again, and it is. In examining the result of WWII, whatever else happened because of it, the most telling is Israel. What are the chances of any other group of people, defeated and dispersed around the world for 2,000 years, staying cohesive; suffering the deaths of over 6,000,000 of their members, and getting their country back? They didn't do it from strength; they were a nation reeling from starvatiom and torture, yet they won.

Who would have thought that the Arabs, who were backward at best, could have grown into a force that could spread terror around the whole world in little more than a generation?

Their determination to destroy Israel can only be Biblical. Their hatred of not just one small country, but Jews anywhere in the world, goes beyond any rational reason to exterminate them. And that is what they intend, complete annihilation. For that matter, the hatred of Gentiles for Jews is not rational. We use the excuse that they were responsible for the crucifixion of Christ, but is is just that, an excuse.

Today's events are evidence of Biblical truth, and are staring us in the face. The evidence of evolution is constantly being dug out of the earth. The one thing that really hinges on faith is that only God can create life. Neither side can prove or disprove it scientifically. We who accept it as part of our faith don't feel we have to.

Realist · « **Reply #85 on:** February 01, 2006, 08:33:43 PM »

Quote from: sntjohnny

No, actually it'd be like being presented with "I'm smarter than you and we came up with this theory, and we think its evidence is really good, and we want you to pretend the evidence doesn't in fact suck. Can you do that?" and saying "Sorry, I'm not going to believe you just because you've got a fancy PhD."

Cutting to the chase -

A theory is not something somebody 'comes up with'. That would be an idea. A theory is not a statement of fact - it is an explanation of available data and evidence. Evolutionary theory certainly isn't complete. Most of it is still buried, waiting to be discovered. I am curious as to why you think the evidence sucks? It is tangible, credible, measurable, datable, physical, visable, recordable, touchable, and more is still discoverable. The only evidence of divine creation is the Bible - a book written by man in an unknown ancient language, interpreted many times, edited for approval by the very early Roman Catholic Church, and rewritten again countless times into todays modern version that reads nothing close to the original.
And is the PhD remark a compliment? Or are you just being sarcastic?

Anthony Horvath · « **Reply #86 on:** February 01, 2006, 09:09:43 PM »

Realist, we've tried to have this conversation before.

You seem to fail to grasp what the debate is. If you read this thread, you'd see that I pretty carefully and in a straightforward manner laid it out.

You jumped in here, which is fine, but you dind't offer anything constructive. We already know what the party line is. To have you come in and huff and puff and merely assert what is already on the table- ignoring the points of contention- is really unproductive.

Yankee · « **Reply #87 on:** February 02, 2006, 04:34:59 PM »

Quote from: Ragnar

I read Yankee's posts and I see the perfect example of why religion is such a horrible thing. She's spent a lifetime meditating on the irrational nonsense of the Bible and this is the compromised mess she's come up with. It's really just sad. Once you realize the Bible is just a collection of fairytales, everything makes so much more sense.

How do YOU know that it is a collection of fairy tales? I don't think my life has been sad because of my religious beliefs. Any sadness comes from having to cope with humans who could have benefitted from practicing that humanity, like the nurse who lay across my legs when my daughter was being born and caused her to be severly retarded. It was my faith in God that saved my sanity and made it possible for me to live in a world with people who can inflict pain on others so easily. My faith makes it possible for me to "leave them to heaven" and not judge them myself. I am living a very satisfactory life in my old age because of it.

Perhaps you should look at how I've meditated from the POV that even though I am losing brain cells at a rapid rate, I still have a plentiful supply, and I have not come to my conclusions through a dull mind. I didn't know Buckminster Fuller, but I wouldn't have minded debating him, even on architecture if the occasion had arisen. It is so easy for you to scorn me. I think you are wrong, but I don't feel scornful of you because of it.

Speaking of sad, the really sad thing is that so many people like you, who spread atheism, very often as they get older, realize that there is a God, and that Christ did exist, (as did Madelyn O'Hare's son) and they seek salvation. That is not the sad part. The sadness comes from all the people whom they have infected and who do not come to the realization that there is life after life. I wonder how many people Ayn Rand infected?? The more people we reach, the more responsible we are for the example we set for them.

Ragnar · « **Reply #88 on:** February 03, 2006, 11:45:19 AM »

I wonder how many people Ayn Rand infected??

The answer would be zero. Anyone who is influenced by Rand is usually already an adult, and already thought along those lines. This is in direct contrast to most religions, which start brainwashing children from the time they are too young to think for themselves.

Yankee · « **Reply #89 on:** February 04, 2006, 05:28:17 AM »

Quote from: Ragnar

I wonder how many people Ayn Rand infected??

The answer would be zero. Anyone who is influenced by Rand is usually already an adult, and already thought along those lines. This is in direct contrast to most religions, which start brainwashing children from the time they are too young to think for themselves.

It is not much more difficult to brainwash an adult than it is a child. A charismatic person can convince just about anyone of just about anything. Jimmie Jones getting 900 people to drink poisoned Kool-Aid is a prime example of that. The thousands of Moonies running around begging money off people to give to their leader is another. (I never have figured out what it is they believe in other than him.)

People who are against Christianity say that there have been terrible crimes committed in its name, and that is true. Dangerous minds are dangerous whatever their beliefs. Those who claim to be Christians while being cruel know very little about Christianity. They have their own agenda, and it it is not Christian.

No group of people were ever more capable of thinking for themselves than the Americans by the time of the Revolution. The right to own land without having to work it for someone else's profit, and there was plenty of it to go around for everyone, made them independent spirits. They were not in a mood to be brainwashed, and they still chose to be Christians. They made the decision on their own. I do not believe they were just bowing to tradition; traditional Christianity had been rejected in the reign of Henry VIII, and there had been other changes from the time the Pilgrims arrived to the Revolution. Whatever the changes, the majority chose Christianity under one denomination or another. I am sure that there were other avenues to consider. Thomas Jefferson, I understand, was an agnostic. The important point is that people chose, they were not forced or brainwashed. I grew up with very little exposure to religion, and I chose Christianity. Obviously, I have some different beliefs about what happened and why, but my goal is the same as other Christians.

Author Topic: Evolution (Read 8709 times)