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Author Topic: My Faith in Science and Lack of Faith in God  (Read 8053 times)

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Copernicus

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Re: My Faith in Science and Lack of Faith in God
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2007, 05:43:20 PM »

A counterfeit twenty looks the same as a real twenty.  They both claim to be the same thing, but one is actually what it claims to be, while the other is an imitation.

Unless they are both counterfeit.  That's my position, you know.  You folks are all playing with Monopoly money and pretending that it is real.  ;-)

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If God is eternal, he has been around longer than humans. Seems to me, it would be much more likely that the earliest humans would have encountered him/it than to assume that all of a sudden someone stumbled upon him yesterday.  As I write this, I
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 05:51:07 PM by Copernicus »
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Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.  Religion is answers that may never be questioned.  --Anonymous

Heretic

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Re: My Faith in Science and Lack of Faith in God
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2007, 06:47:55 PM »

Trust in authority might trigger a belief or a doubt, but it is not enough to sustain it.  What attracted me to Russell was precisely the fact that he used reason and argument to make his points.  I didn't believe what he wrote just because I trusted him.  His arguments impressed me.


 :smt023
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Silly Christians. Myths are for kids! [baby

If there are no Atheists in foxholes then WTF was I doing there?!

 Certainty of death, small chance of success? What are we waiting for?! --Gimli the Dwarf

I am perfectly happy to say that gods are a logical possibility. There is just no reasonable evidence to license such a belief. --Copernicus

Copernicus

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Re: My Faith in Science and Lack of Faith in God
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2007, 02:24:48 PM »

Of course, Christianity claims to be the true continuation of Judaism.  You know as well as I do that Christians trace their beginnings all the way to the beginning of time, unlike Islam or Buddhism for example.

Actually, Islam claims to be the only true Abrahamic religion, and muslims revere Jesus as a prophet rather than the offspring of Allah.  So, by your criteria, Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are exactly the same age.  My point was that ANY religion with a creation myth can claim to be the oldest religion.  The question is how long the adherents of the particular religious creed in question have been around.  All adherents of an Abrahamic doctrine believe that they are the one true continuation of the Biblical tradition.  Some think that God is insulted by all the others.

Christianity began in the early years of the Roman Empire, and it adopted the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew/Aramaic holy scriptures, as its historical antecedent.  It was initially associated with Hellenized Jews, but, unlike Judaism, it was largely proselytized to gentiles and ultimately became a religion practiced almost exclusively by non-Jews.  In fact, tensions between Jews and Christians got pretty bad, and antisemitism didn't begin with any real fervor until Christianity became the state-sponsored religion of the Empire.  After that, the Empire had a law that made it a capital crime to "force" someone to convert to Judaism.  (Ironically, several states in modern India have laws directed against Christians who "force" others to convert.  What goes around comes around.)

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Alleged martyrdoms of alleged eyewitnesses.  You have nothing but scripture to back up the claims.

Not true, as I think we
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Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.  Religion is answers that may never be questioned.  --Anonymous

rareairpug

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Re: My Faith in Science and Lack of Faith in God
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2007, 12:01:51 PM »

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Trust in authority might trigger a belief or a doubt, but it is not enough to sustain it.

How come you don
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rareairpug

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Re: My Faith in Science and Lack of Faith in God
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2007, 12:21:21 PM »

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A counterfeit twenty looks the same as a real twenty.  They both claim to be the same thing, but one is actually what it claims to be, while the other is an imitation.

Unless they are both counterfeit.  That's my position, you know.  You folks are all playing with Monopoly money and pretending that it is real.

Heheheh. I know that is your position.  But your position
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rareairpug

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Re: My Faith in Science and Lack of Faith in God
« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2007, 12:31:16 PM »

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For one, Thomas and Judas were written later, long after Thomas and Judas were dead.

And the point has been made that the synoptic gospels were written long after Jesus was dead, with John being the latest one written.  There is no scholarly consensus on when the gospels were written, but Christian partisans have understandably tended to argue for the earliest possible dates.

And non-Christian partisans have understandably argued for the latest possible date.  But not because they feel threatened or anything
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Copernicus

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Re: My Faith in Science and Lack of Faith in God
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2007, 02:23:02 PM »

Trust in authority might trigger a belief or a doubt, but it is not enough to sustain it.

How come you don
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Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.  Religion is answers that may never be questioned.  --Anonymous

rareairpug

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Re: My Faith in Science and Lack of Faith in God
« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2007, 02:24:10 PM »

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Of course, Christianity claims to be the true continuation of Judaism.  You know as well as I do that Christians trace their beginnings all the way to the beginning of time, unlike Islam or Buddhism for example.

Actually, Islam claims to be the only true Abrahamic religion, and muslims revere Jesus as a prophet rather than the offspring of Allah.  So, by your criteria, Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are exactly the same age.

Well, yeah but then Islam is simply an offshoot of Judaism as well in your book. You caught me in my bias there [smile.  The point I was trying to make is that the Koran wasn
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Copernicus

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Re: My Faith in Science and Lack of Faith in God
« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2007, 01:30:14 AM »

Well, yeah but then Islam is simply an offshoot of Judaism as well in your book. You caught me in my bias there [smile.  The point I was trying to make is that the Koran wasn
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 01:45:38 AM by Copernicus »
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Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.  Religion is answers that may never be questioned.  --Anonymous

rareairpug

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Re: My Faith in Science and Lack of Faith in God
« Reply #49 on: March 21, 2007, 09:24:05 PM »

I think you might have missed my first post....it is right before your short post about your teacher. 
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Copernicus

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Re: My Faith in Science and Lack of Faith in God
« Reply #50 on: March 22, 2007, 01:53:51 PM »

See, here is where I get confused.  You say that a historical Jesus is no threat to your worldview, but then why do you apply different standards to any evidence surrounding Christianity?  What makes you treat Jesus differently?  Even IF there were no manuscript evidence by eyewitnesses for Jesus, why do you not reject the existence of other historical figures for whom we lack eyewitness evidence?

I do treat Jesus more skeptically than I would non-religious figures.  The problem is that we only have source material attesting to his existence from the very people who had the most vested interest in establishing his historicity.  There are no other sources or scraps of information from the time of Jesus himself.  None.  And there are quite a few questions surrounding the credibility of the four gospels.  We've covered those before, so no need to go into them here.  For example, I find much of Earl Doherty's argument to be quite persuasive.

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I have my attitudes and speculations, as do you, but I am honestly looking into the history of these things.  In all honesty, I do question what the sources could have been for the claims made by those men.  Their claims are only as good as their sources, which may have been nothing more than hearsay.  I would prefer information that came from a source untainted by Christian bias.

I find that position somewhat absurd as every time you are presented with a document mentioning some early Christian figure, you consider it tainted by Christian bias.  Of course what you are looking for doesn
« Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 01:38:35 PM by Copernicus »
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Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.  Religion is answers that may never be questioned.  --Anonymous

rareairpug

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Re: My Faith in Science and Lack of Faith in God
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2007, 12:51:13 PM »

Sorry for the long delay. Life got busy.  I don
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rareairpug

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Re: My Faith in Science and Lack of Faith in God
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2007, 12:57:19 PM »


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My point was that ANY religion with a creation myth can claim to be the oldest religion.  The question is how long the adherents of the particular religious creed in question have been around.  All adherents of an Abrahamic doctrine believe that they are the one true continuation of the Biblical tradition.  Some think that God is insulted by all the others.
Still, you have narrowed your choices down, correct?  Isnt that what we were attempting to do?
I'm not sure what you mean here.  I hold all three religions to be equally viable, which is to say not at all.   

If memory serves, you had made some comment about how there are way too many religions out there to legitimately investigate each one.  Three doesn
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