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Author Topic: Polyphyly- Multiple, Independent Ancestry.  (Read 897 times)

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Anthony Horvath

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Polyphyly- Multiple, Independent Ancestry.
« on: June 08, 2006, 10:08:31 AM »

I'm not going to have time to elaborate and defend or explain this, but I thought it would be helpful for people.  Evolution, of course, posits that all life comes from a 'common ancestor.'  

That's not entirely true, of course.  The facts are such that it seems that in a number of cases, its more reasonable to conclude that live arose more than once, independently.  But that's 'abiogenesis,' not 'evolution.'  'Evolution' is not affected by findings in abiogenesis which might suggest multiple common ancestries.

As far as I know, IDers are willing to accept the 'common ancestor' assumption.

What evolutionists don't know, and many 'creationists' too (I'm thinking of the great many who scoff at evolution but haven't particularly looked into things), is that it is perfectly reasonable, instead of starting with the assumption and choosing to interpret in light of that assumption, start with the facts and deduce a different position from those facts.  I believe, like many others, that the facts argue for what I'm going to call 'polyphyly.'

Polyphyly is obviously an evolutionary term, used by evolutionists, without any hint that it could be used against them.  So, the reader should beware that I am to some extent co-opting a pre-existing term.  If I can think of a better one, I'll use it.  Basically, I am defining polyphyly to be:

The view that the evidence best supports the argument that observed variability with observed limits best substantiates the inference that there are multiple 'common ancestors.'

Ie, there may be a range of variation within a particular genome of phylogeny, but there are limits, as well.  The phylogeny is described in terms of its limits, not its variation.

I believe the evidence is best interpreted in this way.  Note, while this view is consistent with an explicit Creationist POV, it is also consistent with a great deal of explicit evolutionary material, as well.  However, this interpretation of the evidence requires no escape to 'time.'  You could have polyphyly over any amount of time, a great or a little.

I am finally getting around to putting this out there because of the rank ignorance among the evolutionists on this forum about what sort of things creationists really believe.  I typically don't like getting into discussions on 'creationism' because most forum participants are nowhere close to being able to examine it objectively.

This view is even consistent with the 'fossil record' athough clearly I have different ideas about what that would mean.
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Anthony Horvath

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Polyphyly- Multiple, Independent Ancestry.
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2006, 04:00:43 PM »

I am pretty excited.  Because of my coming European trip I am reading various kinds of literature and in my readings I came across an essay by a certain Siegfried Scherer.  I thought his 'basic type' discussion was similar to what I was talking about, but my jaw dropped open when I found him using exactly the same words that I used here- polyphyleticism and even monophyleticism.

Awesome.  Not trying to pat myself on the back too much, but not bad, I thought, for someone who is not qualified to think about such things, allegedly.

Scherer is a bright lad... http://www.wzw.tum.de/micbio/staff/scherer.htm

Sweet.  I'm smarter than even I thought.  ;)
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Cogito

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Polyphyly- Multiple, Independent Ancestry.
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2006, 06:01:16 AM »

Quote from: sntjohnny
Sweet. I'm smarter than even I thought.


How is that possible for the smartest man in the world? Do you now believe you are smarter than God?

Well, that could be, young man. That just very well could be.

I mean, what are the odds that just two days before you read that term used in that way in a book, that you would "invent" the very same usage for it? Just a mere two days. What a "coincidence" that is, huh?

You brilliant scientist types never cease to amaze me.
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Anthony Horvath

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Polyphyly- Multiple, Independent Ancestry.
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2006, 11:01:06 AM »

Oh well.  You can think what you want.   Oh, wait.  No you can't.  You need approval from your higher ups, doncha?

Actually, I just checked, and I actually used the word first on May 31st, while trying to find a shorter way to say 'common multiple ancestry.'

You have to understand that while it may seem hard to think my ego could be any more robust, in the face of countless attacks invoking mock humility... "You're wrong, cuz you are not educated enough to draw your own conclusions, and I'm not educated enough, either, but man let me tell you how I understand it so well, myself to tell you how you are wrong...."    :smt078    With this constant pitter patter even I, the Sntjohnny  can be made to wonder...

And then I go and come up with something that the 'big dogs' came up with.  That's awesome!

FYI, I found the term on wiki several weeks ago.  I just didn't know that the term had already been used to describe this hypothesis.

What are the chances you might consider the idea on its merits?

lol, my bad.  Just teasing.  You are not qualified to do that.  But you know I'm wrong and the hypothesis is wrong, anyway, don't ya?  that's the beauty of your own little 'humble' argument.
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