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Author Topic: Sidebar to Arg 2: More Interesting Quotes  (Read 944 times)

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JustLiz

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Sidebar to Arg 2: More Interesting Quotes
« on: March 07, 2006, 02:54:32 PM »

In his book, "How To Think About the Great Ideas" Mortimer J. Adler offers this refutation to Darwin.  It's a very long passage so I'll paraphrase it here.

In order for Darwin's completely naturalistic evolutionary theory to be true, humans must be different than lower animals only by degree.  If humans are not different by degree, but by kind, then we do not have a shared heritage and naturalistic evolution falls apart as an explanation of human origins.

He goes on to state that there are three things humans do that are not seen in any form in any other species.  Here are the three things:

1.  We engage in thinking and reasoning for the sake of it.  For example, my dog does think.  She thinks long and hard about how to get that chipmunk out of the tree.  But, I have never seen her sit and ponder the meaning of life.  In fact, within minutes of when she sits still, it is common to hear a faint snore.  :)  Animals are fully engaged in the present.

2.  We create artistically.  I realize that a spider's web could be called art; however, there is no change in the quality of a web from the beginning of the spider's life to the end - for that matter, over thousands of years spiders have continued to create the same webs.  People, on the other hand, create.  Not only do we create artwork purely for aethestic beauty, we also create houses, computers, automobiles, and a whole host of other inventions.  No animal throughout the history of the world has accomplished this.  Animals may use stones as tools, but they don't melt down metal to make other tools.  With all due respect to the "Planet of the Apes" movies, it is preposterous to conceive of an ape deciding on artificial insemination because it just doesn't want to get married but does want to be a mother.

3.  We think politically.  Dogs do have a pecking order in the pack; however, a dog hoping to be the next alpha male does not campaign for his position.  Animals social structures were set thousands of years ago and has not changed since.  They follow the same instinctive rules they always have.  People, on the other hand, have tremendous variety in our social structures.  We try different forms of government and different forms of families.

It is Adler's position that these three fundamental differences prove that we are not just more advanced apes, but rather a completely different kind of creature.  Because of this, evolution has failed as a theory to explain human origins and development.
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Copernicus

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Re: Sidebar to Arg 2: More Interesting Quotes
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2006, 04:29:47 PM »

Quote from: ChristianNoMore
In order for Darwin's completely naturalistic evolutionary theory to be true, humans must be different than lower animals only by degree.  If humans are not different by degree, but by kind, then we do not have a shared heritage and naturalistic evolution falls apart as an explanation of human origins...


Adler's reasoning is flawed from the beginning.  It is perfectly consistent with Darwin's theory that some animals have completely unique traits.  Moreover, I think that he goes too far in attributing mental traits to humans that he thinks other animals lack.  How does he know what a dog can think?

In the case of humans, however, there are many ways in which we do differ only in degree from other apes and extinct hominids--e.g. in the use of tools.    Extinct hominids are an interesting issue for him, though.  Those other hominid species were different species from us, but their fossil remains record a fairly clear picture of how hominids gradually became more different from gorilla and chimpanzee ancestors.  What happened to them?  Why are there no other hominid species around?  Probably they were killed off by our ancestors, who competed with them for resources and territory.  That would account for the fact that we appear to have some rather unique qualities when compared with currently extant species.
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JustLiz

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Sidebar to Arg 2: More Interesting Quotes
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2006, 09:27:43 AM »

Quote
Adler's reasoning is flawed from the beginning. It is perfectly consistent with Darwin's theory that some animals have completely unique traits.

Adler isn
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Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it's like, a serious bummer.

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."  Romans 12:2

Cogito

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Sidebar to Arg 2: More Interesting Quotes
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2006, 01:10:35 PM »

Quote from: ChristianNoMore
Adler isn
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Sidebar to Arg 2: More Interesting Quotes
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2006, 01:22:12 PM »

lol, and yet we have MILLIONS of fossils, anyway.

I'm going to move this to the science and religion area.  It clearly belongs in an area where religious ideas are discussed in a scientific context.
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JustLiz

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Sidebar to Arg 2: More Interesting Quotes
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2006, 10:17:17 AM »

Copernicus said  
Quote
How does he know what a dog can think?

What is the difference between the possibility that dogs thing about the meaning of life even though you aren
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Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it's like, a serious bummer.

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."  Romans 12:2

Copernicus

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Sidebar to Arg 2: More Interesting Quotes
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2006, 05:34:55 PM »

Quote from: ChristianNoMore
Copernicus said  
Quote
How does he know what a dog can think?

What is the difference between the possibility that dogs thing about the meaning of life even though you aren
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Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.  Religion is answers that may never be questioned.  --Anonymous
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