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matt

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The Big Bang Theory
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2004, 08:12:45 PM »

I do not care about the statistics at this point, because I know that many scientists are changing their mind. Anyways, I am interested in facts and evidence alone. The most logical implication of how the universe began and if science now points toward a Creator is what I am concerned about.
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1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

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The Big Bang Theory
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2004, 08:23:34 PM »

You sound like the characters out of the Left Behind serie. Yes I read propaganda becouse the Left Behind series is basically propaganda.
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matt

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« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2004, 08:29:47 PM »

Even though I read that a year ago, I do believe that the series is not in correlation to what really happens when God comes back. It trys to go by Scripture, but there are some things who cannot describe or fill. This is where the author fills in his own gaps. By the way, I do not sound like one of the characters.
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- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

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The Big Bang Theory
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2004, 08:43:10 PM »

Well I heard that if you were left after the rapture you automatically go to hell. In the book if you convert you go to heaven. Which is true?
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matt

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The Big Bang Theory
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2004, 09:18:09 PM »

FIRST COMING

1Thes 4:13-18
"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

II Th 2:1-10

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

The day of the Lord refers to the tribulation and the tribulation will not come until the lawless one, the antichrist, is revealed. The antichrist will not be revealed until after He who restrains is taken out of the way. The restrainer is the Church, the body of Christ.


SECOND COMING

Matt 24:29-31
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

These verses are speaking of a second rapture after the tribulation, a resurrection of the saints who died during the tribulation. Many people will come to believe in Jesus Christ during the tribulation, and many of them will die, these will be caught up in the second rapture.

Rev 6:9-10
"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? These are the believers who die during the tribulation and then are raptured, resurrected, after the tribulation."

Rev 20:4
"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Sorry for the KJV. If you don't understand that I can give you the NIV or NLT.  :D


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- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

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The Big Bang Theory
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2004, 04:13:34 PM »

Allright let's see NIV, whatever that is. The only shorthand I recognized was KJV and I think it stands for King James' version.
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matt

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« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2004, 04:37:31 PM »

NIV VERSION

FIRST COMING
1Thessalonians 4:13-18
Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words.

II Thessalonians 2:1-10
Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.


The day of the Lord refers to the tribulation and the tribulation will not come until the lawless one, the antichrist, is revealed. The antichrist will not be revealed until after He who restrains is taken out of the way. The restrainer is the Church, the body of Christ.

SECOND COMING

Matthew 24:29-31
Immediately after the distress of those days
    the sun will be darkened,
       and the moon will not give its light;
   the stars will fall from the sky,
       and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.


These verses are speaking of a second rapture after the tribulation, a resurrection of the saints who died during the tribulation. Many people will come to believe in Jesus Christ during the tribulation, and many of them will die, these will be caught up in the second rapture.

Revelations 6:9-10
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?"

Revelations 20:4
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
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Reading List
- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

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The Big Bang Theory
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2004, 04:41:40 PM »

So the people left after the rapture that convert to Christ go to Heaven, Right?
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matt

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« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2004, 05:02:33 PM »

Exactly. :P They will be martyrs for Christ.
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- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
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1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

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The Big Bang Theory
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2004, 04:33:37 PM »

Great! Than if the Rapture happens in my life time, I will think about converting, but till than I am still an Atheist.
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matt

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« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2004, 04:38:35 PM »

The thing is however, that you have no idea how bad the Tribulation is going to be. The world is going to be filled murderers and thiefs who can just run rampade. I don't think you want to live in that. Also, you will be killed for proclaiming Jesus is God in a way that is not so pleasant. Also, why wait? Ask questions for me to answer just don't wait.
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- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

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« Reply #51 on: November 18, 2004, 04:56:49 PM »

lol. Nice try, but it is not that easy to convert me.
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The Big Bang Theory
« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2004, 05:10:50 PM »

Well, if you can defend what you believe in then thats fine. However, if I make more sense to you then it would be logical to think about what I have to say.
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- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

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« Reply #53 on: November 18, 2004, 05:18:12 PM »

The number one reason why I am not a Christian is the fact that the Bible contradicts itself.
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« Reply #54 on: November 18, 2004, 05:36:11 PM »

Give me an alleged contradiction and lets see if I can help you on that particular subject. You can give me a list or even just one.
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- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
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1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

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« Reply #55 on: November 18, 2004, 05:39:37 PM »

Alright, In the Bible it states that God is all loving and all knowing. Then why did he send the Devil to make Eve eat the apple of knowledge, which caused Adam and Eve to leave the garden of Eden.
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« Reply #56 on: November 18, 2004, 05:51:23 PM »

Alright, Love is the highest value on this earth. I'm sure you have loved something or someone in your lifetime, and I'm sure you have chose not to Love someone. For us to be able to not Love someone requires free will. God gave us free will not to set us up for doom, but to give us the chance to follow Him. I think that God is a pretty fair God if you ask me. The Bible starts off in Genesis giving us wisdom and understanding and throughout the Bible God does not once make us believe. He gives us the choice.
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Reading List
- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

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« Reply #57 on: November 19, 2004, 01:50:25 PM »

Eternal pain or beleive in him. Sounds like two great choices to me.
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« Reply #58 on: November 19, 2004, 02:57:40 PM »

What is not fair about that? Everlasting life or hell? Seems like a fair choice to me. Not once in the Bible does he make you do anything. We have free will. You have to believe in Him and then the choice will be so easy. I personally would like to live Forever. I don't know about you though.
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- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

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The Big Bang Theory
« Reply #59 on: November 19, 2004, 04:31:07 PM »

It would like me saying "I'll kill you if you don't conver to Atheism".
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