Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Time Travel  (Read 4236 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TheAntiChrist

  • Semi-Super User!
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1337
    • http://www.geocitie.com/markquinton/Atheism.HTML
Time Travel
« on: December 15, 2004, 04:24:06 PM »

I think we should all tell are theories about time travel.
Logged
For any christian who wants to leave their homeground chatting room. Try this site out.
Here is a site for Atheist.
Puddin Power!!!

TheAntiChrist

  • Semi-Super User!
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1337
    • http://www.geocitie.com/markquinton/Atheism.HTML
Time Travel
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2004, 04:29:53 PM »

Doesn't anyone have a theory on Time Travel?
Logged
For any christian who wants to leave their homeground chatting room. Try this site out.
Here is a site for Atheist.
Puddin Power!!!

Heretic

  • Prevalent User
  • *
  • Feedback: +3/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1057
Time Travel
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2004, 01:31:35 AM »

Yes and I have it all figured out.

Time constraints makes it immpossible to lay out here and now, but after about the 10th of January I'm getting my own laptop I'll be able to type it all (or anything) up then take it to the internet hooch, plug in, connect and cut and paste it here.

Really, I do have it all worked out. Building the machine would be a different story, but the mechanics are not a problem.  It only works in the forward mode, you can go forward in time, but not back.  Also it makes universal travel/exploration possible with out the problems of space and time.  Information would be passed from one explorer to another instantly and two explorers on opposite sides of our galaxy could meet up in the middle (or where ever) in the blink of an eye. And the beauty of it all is you don't even have to worry about traveling at or abouve the speed of light or warping space!  Sub-light speeds would do it. Hell you could glide along on nothing more than the speed a solar sail would take you.
Logged
Silly Christians. Myths are for kids! [baby

If there are no Atheists in foxholes then WTF was I doing there?!

 Certainty of death, small chance of success? What are we waiting for?! --Gimli the Dwarf

I am perfectly happy to say that gods are a logical possibility. There is just no reasonable evidence to license such a belief. --Copernicus

jason

  • Semi-Super User!
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1419
    • http://www.xanga.com/jason_123
Time Travel
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2004, 01:36:06 PM »

yeah man, i know all about time travel.  I do it every day.  In fact, i do it every instant of every day.  To quote Robert Plant, "I am a traveler of both time and space..."
Logged
I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all my friends, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.  And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.

--Paraphrase of Ecclesiastes 1:16,17

TheAntiChrist

  • Semi-Super User!
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1337
    • http://www.geocitie.com/markquinton/Atheism.HTML
Time Travel
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2004, 04:27:23 PM »

Jason, I am pretty sure that no where in the Bible does it say that time travel is evil. So you don't have to post if you still think your going to hell for it.
Logged
For any christian who wants to leave their homeground chatting room. Try this site out.
Here is a site for Atheist.
Puddin Power!!!

jason

  • Semi-Super User!
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1419
    • http://www.xanga.com/jason_123
Time Travel
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2004, 04:36:18 PM »

Quote from: TheAntiChrist
Jason, I am pretty sure that no where in the Bible does it say that time travel is evil. So you don't have to post if you still think your going to hell for it.


what in the WORLD are you talking about?  

man, i keep hoping against hope that someday, anti, you might actually make sense in one of your posts... but so far, you never have...
Logged
I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all my friends, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.  And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.

--Paraphrase of Ecclesiastes 1:16,17

TheDoctor

  • Administrator
  • Prevalent User
  • *
  • Feedback: +6/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1174
    • Lutheran Educators' Guild
Time Travel
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2004, 06:19:04 PM »

Quote from: TheAntiChrist
Jason, I am pretty sure that no where in the Bible does it say that time travel is evil. So you don't have to post if you still think your going to hell for it.


I'm confused.
Logged
Ban time travel NOW
"Okay, kid. Here's where it gets complicated." Amy Pond to Amelia Pond

DevilsAdvocate

  • Guest
Time Travel
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2004, 08:35:53 PM »

man, one day i'm gonna give money to a scientist to study antichrists brain(in, or out of the head, whichever works best) and try tom come up with a scientific idea as to what is going wrong ....

jason's right, we all travel thru time, we're just traveling forward at a certain speed, to travel faster thru time is possible(as heretic will provide i'm sure) but to travel backwards...that i'm not sure about.
Logged

Heretic

  • Prevalent User
  • *
  • Feedback: +3/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1057
Time Travel
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2004, 12:50:01 AM »

I'll pitch in for that brain study! I'm intrigued as to what's happening in there also. My theory is he's smoking too much mary-jew-wanna.

Yes DA, I shall provide during the time frame I mentioned in my last post.  I can't wait to post it so all you smart-arshes can poke it full of holes!  :D
Logged
Silly Christians. Myths are for kids! [baby

If there are no Atheists in foxholes then WTF was I doing there?!

 Certainty of death, small chance of success? What are we waiting for?! --Gimli the Dwarf

I am perfectly happy to say that gods are a logical possibility. There is just no reasonable evidence to license such a belief. --Copernicus

Zagzagel

  • Superior User!!
  • *
  • Feedback: +5/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2962
    • Kats Adventures
Time Travel
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2004, 01:29:26 AM »

I get a kick from you guys...just don't do it literally.

Seriously now.  This is interesting.  I had times when I knew what was going to happen next because I thought it already happened.  Wierd I know.  Dejavu I guess.  

Has this ever happened to anyone else?

And no...I was not on drugs...only maybe lack of sleep...maybe lack of sex with my wife?  who knows?
Logged
Cheers.  :)  Be well.  Live better!

TheAntiChrist

  • Semi-Super User!
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1337
    • http://www.geocitie.com/markquinton/Atheism.HTML
Time Travel
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2004, 12:51:21 PM »

Quote
And no...I was not on drugs...only maybe lack of sleep...maybe lack of sex with my wife? who knows?

That theory is probaly the best one I have seen so far, that would fit me.
Quote
And no...I was not on drugs...only maybe lack of sleep...maybe lack of sex with my wife? who knows?

It was insult to Jason.
Logged
For any christian who wants to leave their homeground chatting room. Try this site out.
Here is a site for Atheist.
Puddin Power!!!

jason

  • Semi-Super User!
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1419
    • http://www.xanga.com/jason_123
Time Travel
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2004, 01:26:27 PM »

Quote from: TheAntiChrist
It was insult to Jason.


yeah, we all got that.  the problem is that the insult made no sense.  it made me laugh, but that was about it.
Logged
I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all my friends, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.  And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.

--Paraphrase of Ecclesiastes 1:16,17

TheAntiChrist

  • Semi-Super User!
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1337
    • http://www.geocitie.com/markquinton/Atheism.HTML
Time Travel
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2004, 02:01:50 PM »

_______ :roll:
Logged
For any christian who wants to leave their homeground chatting room. Try this site out.
Here is a site for Atheist.
Puddin Power!!!

TheDoctor

  • Administrator
  • Prevalent User
  • *
  • Feedback: +6/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1174
    • Lutheran Educators' Guild
Time Travel
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2004, 02:28:40 PM »

Let's get this back on topic, folks.
Logged
Ban time travel NOW
"Okay, kid. Here's where it gets complicated." Amy Pond to Amelia Pond

TheAntiChrist

  • Semi-Super User!
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1337
    • http://www.geocitie.com/markquinton/Atheism.HTML
Time Travel
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2004, 03:35:12 PM »

Ok! But, it may not be here when I get a chance to put in my theory.
Logged
For any christian who wants to leave their homeground chatting room. Try this site out.
Here is a site for Atheist.
Puddin Power!!!

solitary bird

  • Regular User
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 60
Time Travel
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2004, 09:12:57 PM »

I think that time is best described with the word, moment.
 Our time on earth is but a moment, regardless of how long we live.
 Eternity is but a moment, regardless of the fact that it's never ending.
 Our mortality makes us want to break our time into as many segments as we possibly can, but in the end those segments dissolve into a single moment.
 Eternity is continuous. A single moment lasting forever.
 Through His creations, God senses time. That is what we are here for. Our mortality, the life and death of the universe,  all provide segments in time in the moment of eternity.
Logged

matt

  • Predominant User
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 576
Time Travel
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2004, 10:50:47 AM »

Take a look at this article.

Source: http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/tachyons.html

III. Time Travel
Long the darling of science-fiction enthusiasts, time travel has come under serious scrutiny in this century. Scientists and philosophers agree that the sort of time machine envisioned by H. G. Wells in his popular novel is in fact an impossibility. Since Wells's machine was conceived to move only through time but not through space, it would, so to speak, "run into itself" as it traveled both forward and backward in time.{16} Moreover, it seemed to involve the contradiction of traversing, say, one hundred years of time in five minutes of time, since it was sitting in the same place. With the development of relativity theory, however, which posited the traveler's relative motion in space as well as time, time travel re- emerged as a new possibility. In 1949 Kurt G
Logged
Reading List
- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

matt

  • Predominant User
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 576
Time Travel
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2004, 10:56:15 AM »

(continued)

But at this point a more formidable objection to time travel may be lodged: time travel seems to entail the possibility of the existence of a logically pernicious self-inhibitor. The objection is a reminiscent of the argument against tachyons. Earman asks us to consider a rocket ship that at some space-time point x can fire a probe that will travel along a timelike loop into the past lobe of x's light cone. Suppose the rocket is programmed to fire the probe unless a safety switch is on and the safety switch is turned on if and only if the "return" of the probe is detected by a sensing device with which the rocket is equipped (230-232). Is the probe fired or not? The answer is that it is fired if and only if it is not fired, which is logically absurd. Again, this contradiction does not suffice to show that time travel per se is impossible. Rather the whole situation is impossible, and this includes assumptions about the programming of the rocket, the safety switch, the sensing device, and so forth. But, although the contradiction could be avoided by giving up some of these assumptions, Earman suggests that we have good evidence that rockets can be so programmed. Earman concludes, "Thus, although we cannot exclude closed timelike lines on logical grounds, we do have empirical reasons for believing that they do not exist in our world" (232). His conclusion may be strengthened: it is not just the feasibility in our world of such rockets which generates the paradox; so long as such machines are nomologically possible, the contradiction could arise. Given the nomological possibility of such machines, then, timelike loops must be nomologically impossible if the contradiction is to be avoided. The conclusion would therefore appear to be similar to that in the tachyon case: that, although time travel is logically possible, there are no nomologically possible accessible worlds in which time travel can occur.

Paul Horwich has, however, disputed Earman's reasoning, claiming that he invalidly infers that, since the various assumptions are logically incompossible and since the rocket, safety switch, and so forth are physically possible, therefore timelike curves do not exist (440).{20} But there could exist timelike curves in the actual world or in any physically possible world in which the rocket, switch, and so forth do not exist. Letting p = "The rocket, probe, safety switch, and so forth exist and function properly," q = "Timelike loops exist," and r = "The probe is fired," Horwich's argument appears to be that the following reasoning, which is Earman's, is invalid:

http://www.leaderu.com/images/article/offices/billcraig/tachyons/argument5.jpg
 
The problem is that (v) does not follow modally from (i). Although the conjunction of p and q implies an absurdity, the conjunction of q with <> p implies neither a contradiction nor even the possibility of a contradiction. In other words, timelike loops can exist in any world in which such rockets, switches, and so forth are possible but never in fact exist or function correctly; similarly for tachyons and the tachyonic antitelephone.

The opponent of time travel (and tachyons) has thus apparently committed precisely the same fallacy as the theological fatalist, and the response to them has the same form. The opponent of fatalism asserts that from God's foreknowledge of a future contingent proposition it follows, not that the future event cannot occur but only that it will not occur; the proponent of time travel maintains that from the fact that timelike loops exist it follows, not that such rockets cannot exist or function properly, but only that they do not exist or function properly. Further, the opponent of fatalism maintains that, if the contingent event were not to occur, then different propositions would have been true and God's foreknowledge would have been otherwise; the proponent of time travel contends that, if such rockets were to be built and function properly, then the timelike loops would not exist. Thus, the two situations seem quite parallel.


Also, look at IV. Tachyons, Time Travel, and Theological Fatalism.
Logged
Reading List
- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

TheAntiChrist

  • Semi-Super User!
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1337
    • http://www.geocitie.com/markquinton/Atheism.HTML
Time Travel
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2004, 04:53:48 PM »

Sorry, but I don't have the time to read the article right now.
Logged
For any christian who wants to leave their homeground chatting room. Try this site out.
Here is a site for Atheist.
Puddin Power!!!

physicist

  • User
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27
Nice post
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2004, 10:37:31 AM »

Matt,

Thank you for the post.  The article is close to issues I have thought about in the past.  Issues like this arise when one tries to build toy models for the big bang by taking a simple space-time and folding it up, say in a cone.  You can think of this folding as identifications on states that were unrelated in the original Minkowski space.  

The author discusses scenarios that seem to boil down to:

a.) Assume it is conceivable to be able to build and to be able to use devices that would induce acausal behavior.  
b.) Assume the devices are such that, if used, a scenario arises where if A happens ~A happens.  
c.) The machines are built and used.

For example if Tom exists and initiates a sequence of events that kill his father before his birth then Tom never exists.

From this setup, people like Earman conclude that such devices were never possible in first place.  The author of the article points out that a more minimal conclusion is only that the
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up