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Author Topic: Does God Require Violence?  (Read 1851 times)

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Tony N

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Re: Does God Require Violence?
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2009, 01:14:04 PM »
Zag, just this morning I was commenting on that verse about My words are spirit and life.

People on this one board think I am being fleshly or carnally minded because I give so much importance to words. But these words are spirit and life.

We need words to know what our blessings are:
1Co 2:13 which we are speaking also, not with words taught by human wisdom, but with those taught by the spirit, matching spiritual blessings with spiritual words."

If the words are improperly translated then the transmission is lost as to exactly what those spiritual blessings are.
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Did God say that He "will have all mankind to be saved" or that He "will NOT have all mankind to be saved? (1Tim.2:4-6]
Did God say He IS the Saviour of all mankind, or that He "is NOT the Saviour of all mankind? (1Tim.4:10)

Well?
Are we told to "charge and teach these things" or are we told "NOT to charge and teach these things"? (1Tim.4:10,11).

Well? Are we?

Zagzagel

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Re: Does God Require Violence?
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2009, 07:04:09 PM »
People on this one board think I am being fleshly or carnally minded because I give so much importance to words. But these words are spirit and life.

"People" like Noj4me or Cop or Stathie? 

Since I know (perhaps) whom you have in mind I might say that your thoughts may be inaccurate (actually)  the meaning that is... because of your broad use.

I think the persons you have in mind actually think you are gnostic.. which means you are not actually carnally minded or fleshly.  It just means your on not earthly enough.  ;)  You can create your own thread about this if you want (should be interesting) but not in this one.  Just interesting you would use those words.

However.. I agree with the last part of your quote.

Another thinking tank is the garden scene (that Snt.j mentioned).  Jesus didn't want THIS heavy drink.  Why?  There is perhaps a reason for every individuals wants and desires.. etc.

There is no indication that it was wrong for Jesus to want another way... but unfortunately no word is given/written beyond Jesus' thought at this point.  Just his willingness to submit and obey.
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Tony N

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Re: Does God Require Violence?
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2009, 03:07:13 PM »
Zag, by me saying: "people on this one board" I don't mean here at St.Johnny.com. It is another board.

That's funny that people think I'm gnostic as I am always accusing people who do not stick closely with what is written as being gnostic.

Quote
Since I know (perhaps) whom you have in mind I might say that your thoughts may be inaccurate (actually)  the meaning that is... because of your broad use.

Care to elaborate? Can you give an example?
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Did God say that He "will have all mankind to be saved" or that He "will NOT have all mankind to be saved? (1Tim.2:4-6]
Did God say He IS the Saviour of all mankind, or that He "is NOT the Saviour of all mankind? (1Tim.4:10)

Well?
Are we told to "charge and teach these things" or are we told "NOT to charge and teach these things"? (1Tim.4:10,11).

Well? Are we?

Zagzagel

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Re: Does God Require Violence?
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2009, 09:47:24 PM »
Forgive me Tony.  I didn't pay close enough attention to your words.  I thought you specifically meant this board... the sntj forum.  I erred in understanding you.

But continue from here..

We need words to know what our blessings are:
1Co 2:13 which we are speaking also, not with words taught by human wisdom, but with those taught by the spirit, matching spiritual blessings with spiritual words."

If the words are improperly translated then the transmission is lost as to exactly what those spiritual blessings are.

Words are indeed important...  any other thoughts to answer the OP?

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Tony N

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Re: Does God Require Violence?
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2009, 08:33:16 AM »
Quote from: Zagzagel on February 05, 2009, 09:47:24 PM
Forgive me Tony.  I didn't pay close enough attention to your words.  I thought you specifically meant this board... the sntj forum.  I erred in understanding you.

But continue from here..

We need words to know what our blessings are:
1Co 2:13 which we are speaking also, not with words taught by human wisdom, but with those taught by the spirit, matching spiritual blessings with spiritual words."

If the words are improperly translated then the transmission is lost as to exactly what those spiritual blessings are.

Words are indeed important...  any other thoughts to answer the OP?



Sorry Zag it has taken me so long to get back here. I should check every day.

Let's take an instance from the King James Version:

Phi 3:20  For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

How does "our conversation" align itself with 1 Corinthians 2:13? The idea robs us of our spiritual blessings.
A better translation is:

Phi 3:20 For our realm is inherent in the heavens, out of which we are awaiting a Saviour also, the Lord, Jesus Christ,

"inherent" just means "belonging." Our realm or the place where we belong is belonging in the heavens. That realm is a spiritual blessing. If we think of a kings realm, for instance, King Henry's realm is belonging in England it will help us in our understanding.

The only place conversation is in the Greek is in Luke 24:15 and uses HOMILEO in the Greek which the Catholics use in their mass as the Homily or "word" or "conversation" in which the priest gives the message.

The KJV here translated it as: Luk 24:15  And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.

The Concordant Version rightly has this:
Luk 24:15 And it occurred, in their conversation and discussion, Jesus Himself also, drawing near, went together with them."

You wouldn't say: "And it occurred, in their realm and discussion.

So the spiritual word "real" matches our spiritual blessings whereas "conversation"  in Philippians 3:20 does not.
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Did God say that He "will have all mankind to be saved" or that He "will NOT have all mankind to be saved? (1Tim.2:4-6]
Did God say He IS the Saviour of all mankind, or that He "is NOT the Saviour of all mankind? (1Tim.4:10)

Well?
Are we told to "charge and teach these things" or are we told "NOT to charge and teach these things"? (1Tim.4:10,11).

Well? Are we?

Zagzagel

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Re: Does God Require Violence?
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2009, 03:25:32 PM »
So far that seems to make sense to me.
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Cheers.  :)  Be well.  Live better!
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