Topic: Interesting Idea (Read 923 times)

W. E. Messamore · « **on:** October 17, 2008, 08:44:58 PM »

I had a totally crazy idea- what I'm doing here is brainstorming, so feel free to offer helpful comments and criticisms to help me decide if it's a good idea or not:

What if I made a reality tv show (I'd use YouTube to post "episodes") similar to the SuperSize me concept (trying something for 30 days) wherein an atheist or agnostic lives as a Christian for 30 days. Granted he/she wouldn't actually become a Christian for 30 days, but (s)he'd act as one to gain some insight into Christianity and atheism.

The requirements would be daily prayer upon waking and before sleeping (using prescribed prayers from a prayerbook), fasting from meat and dairy on Wednesdays and Fridays (according to the instructions in the Didache, a practice which many Catholic and Orthodox Christians still observe), attending Saturday evening and Sunday morning services, and almsgiving (at least once during the month volunteering some time at a soup kitchen or retirement home). The participant could blog the experience as well.

Any thoughts? Good idea? Bad idea? Why?

cimics · « **Reply #1 on:** October 17, 2008, 09:32:29 PM »

What if the atheist asked a Christian to live 30 days as an atheist?

Anthony Horvath · « **Reply #2 on:** October 17, 2008, 09:44:12 PM »

heh I wonder what that would look like.

fematheunicorn · « **Reply #3 on:** October 18, 2008, 12:17:55 AM »

I think it would be interesting. I would watch it, and I never follow TV shows/ youtube videos.

It would probably be a good idea for the person to have a "guide" of some kind to help them mix with the crowd and see the social aspects of each lifestlye so that they don't lean more towards simply observing.

I don't really know how you would have a Christian enter the atheist/agnostic world, since it really isn't the same. I guess the Christian could meet up with a philosophy or science group, and just see what it is like to not have the church influence for a while.

Cool idea.

Copernicus · « **Reply #4 on:** October 18, 2008, 02:56:22 AM »

Quote from: W. E. Messamore on October 17, 2008, 08:44:58 PM

What if I made a reality tv show (I'd use YouTube to post "episodes") similar to the SuperSize me concept (trying something for 30 days) wherein an atheist or agnostic lives as a Christian for 30 days. Granted he/she wouldn't actually become a Christian for 30 days, but (s)he'd act as one to gain some insight into Christianity and atheism.

You would need to stipulate that the atheist be someone who had not formerly been a Christian. I believe that most atheists are former Christians who have no need to discover what life as a Christian is like. Also, we atheists live immersed in a Christian culture, but not vice versa. So there it would actually be more interesting for Christians to try to learn more about atheistic experiences. A documentary was made a few years ago of an atheist coming to live with a conservative Christian family for 30 days. The Christians learned more than the atheist, since many of their preconceived notions about atheism had been mistaken.

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The requirements would be daily prayer upon waking and before sleeping (using prescribed prayers from a prayerbook), fasting from meat and dairy on Wednesdays and Fridays (according to the instructions in the Didache, a practice which many Catholic and Orthodox Christians still observe), attending Saturday evening and Sunday morning services, and almsgiving (at least once during the month volunteering some time at a soup kitchen or retirement home). The participant could blog the experience as well.

Again, you seem not to understand what atheists are like. Many do participate in charitable work, although they do not practice religious rituals such as fasting and prayer. You will find atheists in soup kitchens and retirement homes, although many do not wear signs or badges that identify their lack of religious belief. What would be the point of an atheist praying? Prayer is a very private experience, and atheists don't sense the presence of a god to pray to. Prayers are usually intended to influence God's behavior and attitudes, although Christians often feel uncomfortably admitting that. (In my experience, many Christians confronted with this observation claim that prayer is only to glorify God and for no other purpose.) Can you pretend to yourself that you disbelieve in God's existence? I don't see how such an act of conscious self-deception could be carried off.

W. E. Messamore · « **Reply #5 on:** October 19, 2008, 03:46:09 PM »

cimics, that's a tough question- I don't really know what that would look like since being a Christian makes positive assertions (as to God's existence, etc.) and atheism simply makes one negative one (that God does not exist). The assertions Christianity makes carry with them some imperatives for how we ought to live, I don't know that the atheist premise does that.

Copernicus. Sorry if I seemed to imply that atheists don't do charitable work. Not my intention at all. What a sweeping generalization that would be (and just as likely true of self-identifying Christians)!

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Prayers are usually intended to influence God's behavior and attitudes

For many Christians, this makes up the most part of prayer, but I would argue that classical Christianity does not take this view of it. God's behavior and attitudes cannot be influenced- to say so would be to ascribe transitory, human qualities to the Divine. God does not "have" behavior or attitudes to begin with. He is unchangeable, pure act- fully actualized potential. He does nothing but emanate Existence and give being to all things, He does nothing but pour out love, mercy, grace, and good gifts from His infinite store.

The main and ultimate purpose of prayer is to influence the person's attitudes and behavior who is doing the praying, changing him, training his thoughts and perspectives, and making him more receptive to the good gifts that come from the Divine by aligning his very form more perfectly to recieve God's light as he was designed to in the first place.

Finally- I wouldn't ask the atheist to change his beliefs or commit a willful act of self-deception, double-think or anything of the sort. This would just be about actions. The SuperSize me guy didn't make-believe that McDonald's was good during his 30 days, he just went through the actions to learn the effects it would have on him. It was (theoretically) a scientific, curiousity-driven test to see what would happen. The atheist on my "reality show" would approach the 30 days of Christianity in that manner and frame of mind. Does that explanation make it more acceptable?

Dotard · « **Reply #6 on:** November 12, 2008, 07:04:44 AM »

God does not "have" behavior or attitudes to begin with.

Gen. 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Gen. 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

2 Cor. 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The three examples above are behaviors.

And these are attitudes;

2 Cor. 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Deut. 13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

Matt. 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

The bible describes the creator being within does indeed possess attitudes and demonstrates behaviors.

Tony N · « **Reply #7 on:** November 12, 2008, 07:09:33 AM »

Rather than call the show Wife Swapping call it Religion Swapping.

Righteous Goy · « **Reply #8 on:** May 14, 2009, 04:53:30 PM »

cimics SAID:
What if the atheist asked a Christian to live 30 days as an atheist?

I don't see a committed Christian (OR Jew, or Righteous Gentile) doing that, because they would be committing sins of commission or omission, and intentionally, for a full month. Would YOU risk your (im)mortal soul for a "reality show"?

Anthony Horvath · « **Reply #9 on:** May 14, 2009, 05:04:30 PM »

According to Copernicus, being an atheist entails no logically connected morals or behaviors. So I guess you could, as an atheist, still do everything you would normally do as a Christian. Heck, and Dannyboy (and Cop in the past as well) thinks its the No True Scotsman fallacy to insist that the term 'Christian' means a certain set of things over against other things and that anyone who self-identifies as 'Christian' gets to have the label. So, on that thinking not only could a Christian go on doing everything he did before, but he could go on believing in God, too.

A Christian self-identifying as an atheist gets to lay claim to the label 'atheist' too, right? What's good for the goose is good for the gander? And since atheism entails no moral framework, rejecting secular humanism and behaving as a religious fundy should raise no objection, too!

:)

Author Topic: Interesting Idea (Read 923 times)

W. E. Messamore

Interesting Idea

cimics

Re: Interesting Idea

Anthony Horvath

Re: Interesting Idea

fematheunicorn

Re: Interesting Idea

Copernicus

Re: Interesting Idea

W. E. Messamore

Re: Interesting Idea

Dotard

Re: Interesting Idea

Tony N

Re: Interesting Idea

Righteous Goy

Re: Interesting Idea

Anthony Horvath

Re: Interesting Idea