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Tony N

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Is Satan a real Being to you?
« on: February 18, 2009, 07:27:00 AM »
I am curious if any of you believe that Satan is a real being.

I don't mean a red devil with a pitchfork and horns on his head.

I personally believe that Satan is a real being, a spirit being, but nonetheless a being.
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Did God say that He "will have all mankind to be saved" or that He "will NOT have all mankind to be saved? (1Tim.2:4-6]
Did God say He IS the Saviour of all mankind, or that He "is NOT the Saviour of all mankind? (1Tim.4:10)

Well?
Are we told to "charge and teach these things" or are we told "NOT to charge and teach these things"? (1Tim.4:10,11).

Well? Are we?

Dannyboy

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Re: Is Satan a real Being to you?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2009, 08:07:53 AM »
No.
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If God has a problem with the way i live my life then let him tell me, not you.

"Denying your own experience of reality is never a good step, no matter how many are arrayed against you" - Spero by AR Horvath

Tony N

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Re: Is Satan a real Being to you?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2009, 08:34:34 AM »
Quote from: Dannyboy on February 18, 2009, 08:07:53 AM
No.

One word, speaks volumes.  [biggrin

What do you think Satan is?
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Did God say that He "will have all mankind to be saved" or that He "will NOT have all mankind to be saved? (1Tim.2:4-6]
Did God say He IS the Saviour of all mankind, or that He "is NOT the Saviour of all mankind? (1Tim.4:10)

Well?
Are we told to "charge and teach these things" or are we told "NOT to charge and teach these things"? (1Tim.4:10,11).

Well? Are we?

Dannyboy

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Re: Is Satan a real Being to you?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2009, 08:51:37 AM »
A fictional entity.

(i
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If God has a problem with the way i live my life then let him tell me, not you.

"Denying your own experience of reality is never a good step, no matter how many are arrayed against you" - Spero by AR Horvath

Anthony Horvath

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Re: Is Satan a real Being to you?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2009, 09:44:40 AM »
"(i
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Re: Is Satan a real Being to you?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2009, 12:20:18 PM »
Yes. Just as God is a real entity I equally believe Satan is a real entity.
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composer2005

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Re: Is Satan a real Being to you?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2009, 06:08:03 PM »
Satan is merely a Hebrew metaphor describing ANY Adversary / Opposer / Enemy, Good or Bad, Male or Female or Neuter Gender.

It is NEVER a proper name for any thing.

For example I have at least two Greek to English ' Word for Word ' Interlinears that NEVER use the term ' Satan ' instead it says ' adversary '.

The context of each Scripture where the term adversary (Satan = Hebrew) can usually (not always) easily detect the identity of that adversary.


Proofs: SATAN?
EMPHATIC Diaglott Original Greek NT Text Interlinear ALPHABETICAL APPENDIX pp. 915- 916 renders: SATAN, is a transferred Hebrew word, and is derived from the verb which means to lie in wait, to oppose, to be an adversary. Hence the noun means an adversary or opposer.

The term
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Anthony Horvath

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Re: Is Satan a real Being to you?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2009, 06:17:08 PM »
Quote
Literal Satan fallen heavenly angel spirit being believers appear to believe their god is a half wit who had this naughty fallen Satan angel spirit being trapped in its heaven, but let it go with up to a third of the other heavenly angels that went bad also (apparently?) only to make the earth more evil than it already is? (cf. Rev. 12:7 - 9) KJV

eh?  Is that you or the commentary.

Why does this make God a half wit?  Why would it make him a 'half wit' if Satan could fall any more than if we humans also fell?  Or is that the implication of this quote- that sin, evil, corruption, etc is nonsense?

If humans can go 'bad' and that doesn't make God a half wit than neither does Satan going bad.

Your points about the use of the word are fair enough but I wouldn't go so far as to say 'mere metaphor.'  That there seems to be one specific entity in mind besides all the others is clear from a number of passages, whatever you call him. 
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Tony N

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Re: Is Satan a real Being to you?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2009, 05:53:07 AM »
In the Bible the Adversary is also called Satan:

Rev 20:2 "And he lays hold of the dragon, the ancient serpent, who is the Adversary and Satan, and binds him a thousand years."

So, while there are many people in the Bible who are adversaries, this does not mean they are THE Adversary anymore than there being many lords in the Bible mean that they are THE Lord Jesus Christ.
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Did God say that He "will have all mankind to be saved" or that He "will NOT have all mankind to be saved? (1Tim.2:4-6]
Did God say He IS the Saviour of all mankind, or that He "is NOT the Saviour of all mankind? (1Tim.4:10)

Well?
Are we told to "charge and teach these things" or are we told "NOT to charge and teach these things"? (1Tim.4:10,11).

Well? Are we?

Tony N

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Re: Is Satan a real Being to you?
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2009, 09:38:08 AM »
1Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and persuades David to number Israel,

Was this Satan a figment of the imagination of the writer of Chronicles?

I think not.
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Did God say that He "will have all mankind to be saved" or that He "will NOT have all mankind to be saved? (1Tim.2:4-6]
Did God say He IS the Saviour of all mankind, or that He "is NOT the Saviour of all mankind? (1Tim.4:10)

Well?
Are we told to "charge and teach these things" or are we told "NOT to charge and teach these things"? (1Tim.4:10,11).

Well? Are we?

Zagzagel

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Re: Is Satan a real Being to you?
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2009, 04:33:22 PM »
I'm more real than "satan" is.. just as Dannyboy realizes that his reality is more real to him than a "satan" is.  ;)

I've wondered how deeply I should concern myself about this.  I've wondered this for several years now. 

Composser2005 shared something that is not new to the religious ones here (or elsewhere.. a debate I've seen often within religious circles)..  so yes, I've heard this "adversary" explanation before by many groups.  I agree with some of it but I just cannnot get the pigs out of my head.

The pigs?  Yes.  I wonder why the NT writers would want us to take note of this story?  I've pondered this only to realize that demonic forces are real. Let me put it the way Jesus did.. a house divided cannot stand.   I think Jesus in that passage allows for a very personage that is spiritual and created by God to be our adversary.. but for a reason.

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Tony N

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Re: Is Satan a real Being to you?
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2009, 07:32:14 AM »
I would think one of the main problems in believing Satan exists as a being is that we cannot see him. He is a spirit being.

If he were a tangible person with flesh and bones, red with horns and a tail and having a pitchfork, then, yea, everyone would probably believe he existed.

So, since he is invisible we have to take it by faith that he does exist and many people just are not ready to be believing in something they can't see.

But I bet if they saw a snake talking to them or saw Jesus casting demons out of a man into a bunch of pigs they'd believe then.
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Did God say that He "will have all mankind to be saved" or that He "will NOT have all mankind to be saved? (1Tim.2:4-6]
Did God say He IS the Saviour of all mankind, or that He "is NOT the Saviour of all mankind? (1Tim.4:10)

Well?
Are we told to "charge and teach these things" or are we told "NOT to charge and teach these things"? (1Tim.4:10,11).

Well? Are we?

Zagzagel

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Re: Is Satan a real Being to you?
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2009, 06:21:13 PM »
I would think one of the main problems in believing Satan exists as a being is that we cannot see him. He is a spirit being.

If he were a tangible person with flesh and bones, red with horns and a tail and having a pitchfork, then, yea, everyone would probably believe he existed.

So, since he is invisible we have to take it by faith that he does exist and many people just are not ready to be believing in something they can't see.

But I bet if they saw a snake talking to them or saw Jesus casting demons out of a man into a bunch of pigs they'd believe then.

Some problems here... Only A&E (anyone hungry for a hamburger?) experienced the talking snake.  And how many believed after the pig experience?  All they wanted to do was get rid of this man.  But that is just what we read in the OT or NT writings. 

It seems to me that no matter the miracles or healings recorded in either writings you will always have a great crowd that won't have this "faith" in what they experience..so we read.  I thnk another miracle is needed?  Like say.. a revelation?  (shrugs)

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Anthony Horvath

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Re: Is Satan a real Being to you?
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2009, 08:33:25 PM »
"And how many believed after the pig experience?  All they wanted to do was get rid of this man."

That's not really a fair objection because none of the witnesses disputed the existence of demons or Satan.  You're right, all they wanted to do was get rid of Jesus, but remember that their approach when faced with such deeds was to say "by the power of demons he drives out demons."   The question of the existence of demons was taken for granted in favor of them existing.
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Zagzagel

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Re: Is Satan a real Being to you?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2009, 06:47:31 PM »
Good point sntj.  I see your point.
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Anthony Horvath

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Re: Is Satan a real Being to you?
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2009, 10:09:30 PM »
It doesn't negate your point of course, it just removes that particular story as an illustration of it.  Jesus pointed out that some wouldn't believe even if they saw him raised from the dead.  Heck, even Pharaoh never really came around...
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Zagzagel

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Re: Is Satan a real Being to you?
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2009, 05:46:08 PM »
Isn't it amazing that "proof" isn't proof to some?  Some want an amputee to grow their legs or arms back in front of their very eyes.  IF I wanted that kind of proof then I would have to reject a many great writings of history.  Odd my saying this?  Yes.  ;)
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