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[Tony N]

Obama, according to this movie is not a natural born citizen and therefore cannot, according to our constitution, be a president:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/this_could_be_the_game_changer.html

After clicking the link above, scroll down to the movie and be amazed.
Tony

[cimics]

Obama's Hawaii birth certificate can be found here

[Anthony Horvath]

I read somewhere that that doc was being disputed.  Also, read somewhere that he might have dual citizenship with Indonesia. 

[cimics]

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

That should settle anyone's doubts on the matter.

[Anthony Horvath]

Interesting.  I didn't see anything on there about the document that they handled as being the one that I looked at on some Obama supporter's site.  Maybe it was the Huffington post.  Don't recall.  The one in those pics do not remind me of the doc that I saw.

Anyway, that doesn't settle the Indonesian issue.

[Copernicus]

That should settle anyone's doubts on the matter.

Cimics, you assume that people want their doubts settled.  The whole point of this red herring is to raise doubts and keep them raised.  That has been openly admitted by some in the McCain camp.

It is interesting that there is a parallel urban myth spread by the left that McCain is ineligible because he was born in the Panama Canal at a time when birth there did not qualify babies for citizenship.  That would be true if McCain's parents had not both been US citizens, but some folks still pursued the nonsense.  Such silliness has not been systematically spread by the Obama campaign, because his strategy has been issue-oriented.  McCain appears to have chosen to emphasize character issues over policy, and that is why we seem to be inundated with all this nonsense about birth certificates, links to terrorism, and who is or is not patriotic enough.

[Anthony Horvath]

That would be true if McCain's parents had not both been US citizens, but some folks still pursued the nonsense.  Such silliness has not been systematically spread by the Obama campaign, because his strategy has been issue-oriented.

Or because it was nonsense and there was no basis. 

The Hawaii birth certificate issue was raised by Clinton supporters, my friend.  It was latched onto by conservatives for a variety of reasons, some of which were probably loony but others which seemed valid.  I mean, if you care about the rule of law they are valid.  My impression of those on the Huffington Post in response to such issues is that it doesn't frankly bother them even if Obama was not a US citizen. 

[Copernicus]

Or because it was nonsense and there was no basis. 

It wasn't pure nonsense.  If McCain's parents had not been American citizens, he would be ineligible to run for the presidency today.  The argument was just as silly as all of the nonsense about Obama's birth certificate.

The Hawaii birth certificate issue was raised by Clinton supporters, my friend.  It was latched onto by conservatives for a variety of reasons, some of which were probably loony but others which seemed valid.  I mean, if you care about the rule of law they are valid.  My impression of those on the Huffington Post in response to such issues is that it doesn't frankly bother them even if Obama was not a US citizen. 

The constitutional requirement of birth on American soil is nonsensical, and all of us know it.  But the Constitution is now holy scripture and cannot be changed.  As for who raised the Obama birth certificate nonsense, that is irrelevant.  Clinton's campaign did manufacture and promulgate smears against Obama, and they ultimately backfired.  They are backfiring worse against McCain.  He continues to sink quickly in the polls.  Obama was right to stick to the high ground, although some of his advisors had wanted him to go negative, as well.  Republicans somehow find it more difficult to resist the mudslinger express approach.  It worked well for them against Gore and Kerry, but Obama, like Bill Clinton, has proven resistant to such tactics.  McCain might have had a chance if he had picked a more serious VP running mate and decided to run an issues-oriented campaign.  He has only himself to blame.

[Anthony Horvath]

"It wasn't pure nonsense.  If McCain's parents had not been American citizens,"

Right, but they were.  That's why it was nonsense.

"The constitutional requirement of birth on American soil is nonsensical, and all of us know it."

Eh?  Not sure what you think I'm referring to.

"But the Constitution is now holy scripture and cannot be changed."

Oh, is this like satire?  Basically are you saying that even if he wasn't legitimately an American citizen you wouldn't care either?  Its precisely because Obama's campaign and supporters have this attitude that some of us don't take Obama's word for it.  His supporters would lie, because why should the Messiah get held up on a technicality?

"As for who raised the Obama birth certificate nonsense, that is irrelevant."

I just don't want you painting a simplistic smear of McCain and the Republicans, here.

"Obama was right to stick to the high ground, although some of his advisors had wanted him to go negative, as well."

lol, right.  Obama hasn't gone negative?

"He has only himself to blame."

And credit, if he wins.

[Anthony Horvath]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyspCRmJv7w

That is a youtube video of a lifelong Democrat- who also filed a Federal lawsuit on the matter which is still in play- describing the challenges to Obama's citizenship.  Obama has declined to produce the documents required for the lawsuit.

It sounds like a compelling case, to me.  Why not just produce the documents?

The guy makes note of the discrepancy between the Obama website birth cert and the factcheck one which I thought I had noted.

Anyway, I am posting this in part to dispel the notion that this stuff is emerging from Republicans.  This is a democrat and it is a democrat lawsuit.  I didn't research his claims about his credentials or check to see if he was a Clinton backer, but whatver the case he's not a repub.

[Tony N]

Did you see the movie? Even if Barack Hussein Obama is a natural born citizen, as a child he gave that up when in Indonesia. If, when he came back into the U.S. he would have to go through immigration in order to become a **naturalized** citizen. And a naturalized citizen also cannot  become president.

And besides, anyone can photoshop a birth certificate these days to make it look like a real one for digital purposes like putting one on a web site.

Furthermore, Barack Hussein Obama sat on the board of the Annenberg Foundation for years dispersing over 60 million dollars and that Foundation is behind Factcheck.com which Hussein Obama's supposed digitized copy of his birth certificate is on.

Furthermore, why doesn't Barack Hussein Obama just put this whole matter to rest and surrender his birth certificate to the judge which attorney Berg has requested in order to see if it is authentic?

Barack Hussein Obama's paternal grandmother says he was born in Kenya.
Furthermore, according to the attorney in the movie, even if Obama was a natural born citizen, he gave that up when, as a child, he went to live in Indonesia and had to give up his U.S. citizenship in order to go to school there. He never re-applied for U.S. citizenship.

Lest anyone wonder what my position is on McCain and Obama, I am not for either candidate. I may not vote for anyone for president this year. What does matter is our constitution being trampled on, if indeed, it is.
My name is Tony and I approve of this message.

[Anthony Horvath]

hey, check this out.  Berg managed to secure a court order demanding Obama produce his original documents:  http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/pennsylvania/paedce/2:2008cv04083/281573/13/

Cimics, correct me if I'm wrong.  I see that it is not signed.  I presume that digital copies aren't?  The filing date is to the right so I assume this order is valid.

[cimics]

You're wrong.  All that shows is that the attorney submitted a draft order that he wishes the judge to sign.  I would expect to see some indication that the judge signed it, either an actual signature, a stamp, or something saying the original was signed.  Attorneys file proposed orders all the time for relief urged in a motion, and indeed, this order appears to accompany the attorney's response to the motion to dismiss. 

[Anthony Horvath]

Gotcha, so the guy just wants to save the judge some work and so completes the order draft for him?

[Copernicus]

Gotcha, so the guy just wants to save the judge some work and so completes the order draft for him?

It's called wishful thinking.  Is the lawyer getting paid by someone to chase this thing down a rabbit hole? 

I will say it again.  If you want to help McCain, look for better material.  Time is short, and nobody seriously doubts Obama's birth qualification to be president any more than they doubt McCain's.  This kind of thing just makes Obama opponents look desperate and pathetic.

BTW, factcheck.org has an excellent article on this non-issue.

[Anthony Horvath]

you're ridiculous cop.

[Anthony Horvath]

I know the answer to this, but incidentally, what would your position be if it was discovered he really wasn't constitutionally eligible to be president?

[cimics]

Gotcha, so the guy just wants to save the judge some work and so completes the order draft for him?

It's a common practice.   It can incrementally add to the effectiveness of your advocacy, it saves the court time if it decides to go your way, and depending on the court, a draft order might even be required to accompany a request for relief.  It's very common for a court to ask the winning party to draft an order, but it is also common for orders to be submitted before the trial judge has ruled on a matter without knowing what the trial judge will do.

BTW, factcheck.org has an excellent article on this non-issue.

Um . . . I already linked to that article several posts ago.  Are you distracted today?  

[cimics]

I know the answer to this, but incidentally, what would your position be if it was discovered he really wasn't constitutionally eligible to be president?

Just wondering who this question is directed towards.

If he's not constitutionally eligible, he cannot be President.

[cimics]

BTW, is this the same guy?  http://www.911forthetruth.com/pages/BergBlog.htm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=220279&mesg_id=220279