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Author Topic: Can we call what is "bad" in man "good"  (Read 1285 times)

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Tony N

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Can we call what is "bad" in man "good"
« on: May 17, 2006, 08:18:16 AM »

Can we call what is "bad" in man "good" in God?
 
Let us take an illustration that we may see this more clearly. A frail and narrow bridge swings across a gulf, fearful and fathomless. On this, as it rocks wildly in the winds, a father places his young child. Beyond, on the other side of the gulf, he has placed a prize beyond estimate, which he promises to the child if he passes the bridge safely, and then compels him to go, commanding him to look neither to the right nor left.



***The boy, heedless and disobedient, hesitates, reels, the bridge quivers for a moment, swings from under him, and hurled into the gulf, he is caught and impaled on a sharp rock down the abyss. There he hangs for long and weary years, agonizing and writhing in torture, and crying to his father for help and deliverance. But his father turns a deaf ear to all his entreaties, wholly indifferent to the horrible sufferings of his child, and justifies himself by saying, 'The boy might have passed the bridge safely, he was warned, and he suffers justly.' Admitting the possibility of passing safely, yet all men would pronounce this father a monster and a fiend. And shall God place me on the frail and narrow bridge of life, stretched over the awful and flaming abyss of endless perdition, with the possibility of a heaven beyond, and then leave me there to cross it, swinging fearfully in the winds of temptation, knowing that as a matter of fact I shall, in crossing, be precipitated into the horrible pit, there to lie for ever in hopeless agony?" Who would not cry out with the poet . . . quoted--


"And canst Thou then look down from perfect bliss
And see me plunging in this dark abyss,
Calling Thee Father in a sea of fire,
Or pouring blasphemies at Thy desire?"


Yes the question is essentially this, and no argument can evade the enquiry
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Did God say that He "will have all mankind to be saved" or that He "will NOT have all mankind to be saved? (1Tim.2:4-6]
Did God say He IS the Saviour of all mankind, or that He "is NOT the Saviour of all mankind? (1Tim.4:10)


Well?
Are we told to "charge and teach these things" or are we told "NOT to charge and teach these things"? (1Tim.4:10,11).


Well? Are we?

nojc4me

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Can we call what is "bad" in man "good"
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2006, 08:05:35 PM »

A frail and narrow bridge swings across a gulf, fearful and fathomless. On this, as it rocks wildly in the winds,

This doesn't accurately describe the world (simply being alive puts one in the world), nor the Torah (the 'bridge' that allows the son to safely to pass theough life). Often in Scripture, the Torah is called "sure" and "solid" and "firm" and "perfect" and "steady."
No single nor succession of steps casts a person over a precipice into "endless perdition", nor are the cries of the aflicted ignored by our Father.
The Father is near to all who call upon Him, so nobody has to walk the bridge alone. You don't even have to walk the bridge to get through life, but walking the bridge makes life better, as well as there being a reward for walking through life on the bridge.
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Suggested Reading list:
"You Take jesus, I'll Take God" - Sam Levine
"The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" - Robert Heinlein
"Hope" - Aaron Zelman & L. Neil Smith
"The Probability Broach" - L. Neil Smith
"Wizard's First Rule" - Terry Goodkind (Check out the rest of the series, too.)
"The Constitution of the United States" - input from various American Statesmen (Read that as "Old, wealthy white men, now dead, who were often seen to be wearing wigs and hose in public.")

Deep Thought

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Can we call what is "bad" in man "good"
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2006, 12:21:08 AM »

Quote from: nojc4me
No single nor succession of steps casts a person over a precipice into "endless perdition", nor are the cries of the aflicted ignored by our Father.


Nojc, don't forget that Tony doesn't believe in "endless perdition." That statement would best be aimed elsewhere.
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"I am he that rules the world, don't you know?" - Jarlaxle

"Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."

nojc4me

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Can we call what is "bad" in man "good"
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2006, 10:28:46 PM »

I lifted it directly from his thread-opening post.
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Suggested Reading list:
"You Take jesus, I'll Take God" - Sam Levine
"The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" - Robert Heinlein
"Hope" - Aaron Zelman & L. Neil Smith
"The Probability Broach" - L. Neil Smith
"Wizard's First Rule" - Terry Goodkind (Check out the rest of the series, too.)
"The Constitution of the United States" - input from various American Statesmen (Read that as "Old, wealthy white men, now dead, who were often seen to be wearing wigs and hose in public.")

Tony N

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Can we call what is "bad" in man "good"
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2006, 11:33:26 PM »

njc, the story is IF Christendom is true as to eternal torment, and if God really is as BAD as that then can we call what is BAD in man GOOD in God?

In other words, if a human father were to do that to his son we would call that BAD. Get it? So why is it not BAD if God does it? It is. It is bad, real bad.
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Did God say that He "will have all mankind to be saved" or that He "will NOT have all mankind to be saved? (1Tim.2:4-6]
Did God say He IS the Saviour of all mankind, or that He "is NOT the Saviour of all mankind? (1Tim.4:10)


Well?
Are we told to "charge and teach these things" or are we told "NOT to charge and teach these things"? (1Tim.4:10,11).


Well? Are we?
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