Topic: Evil, Huh! What is it good for?! Absolutely Somethin (Read 6443 times)

Tony N · « **on:** June 24, 2005, 08:40:26 AM »

For you Earth Wind and Fire fans, thought I'd have a fun subject line.

but really, what is evil good for? If it crept into God's universe behind His back, He sinned. If He created it but it got out of His control, He sinned.

If He created it, controls it, then it must be for a good, loving purpose.

What is evil? Read the book of Job. Evil is the murder, death, pillaging, boils, etc. brought upon Job and what was his. God brought that evil upon Job, underserved.

What is the greatest evil ever done in the universe? The killing of God's innocent Son. Yet it is written that "God desires to crush Him." He was, according to Act 2:23 ". . . delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: "

Why did God do that? So that good would come to the whole human race. When Jesus said "not My will but Thine be done" it was God's will that Christ go to the cross. It could not be otherwise.

I'm thankful that "God sent His Son into the world to save sinners" are you?[/b]

Zagzagel · « **Reply #1 on:** June 24, 2005, 01:38:28 PM »

Hey Tony..

Where ya been hiding? Good to know that you're alive and kicking!

Did God create evil for a good purpose...?? There are two questions there and I will try to answer both.

1. Did God create evil?

Yes. He made you didn't he?

2. Is there a good purpose for evil?

I'll have to figure out your purpose first before answering that question.

Lol. Just kidding

Surely God has a purpose for everything he does, and created. God said everything was..."Good" and "Very good". Even good ol' serpent was in the garden before what religion calls "original sin" ever happened.

nojc4me · « **Reply #2 on:** June 24, 2005, 09:15:20 PM »

The song, "War" as in, "War - Huh! What is it good for? Absolutly nothing!" was most famously performed by Edwin Starr, not E, W & F.
http://www.geocities.com/dreadshot/lyrics/edwinstarr-war.html
Liked the song when it was fresh. Have it as soundtrack for and anti-war video.
Liked "Sign, sign, everywhere a sign" too, but it's anti-private property rights. Seems like many of the songs I like have some dark or sad tone to them, like "Flood" by Jars of Clay, or "2112" by Rush. Trippy instrumentals are a favourite of mine, too. The beginning of "Everlong" by the Foo Fighters, for example.

Heretic · « **Reply #3 on:** June 24, 2005, 09:38:05 PM »

Greatest evil ever conceived? I would say organized religion. Xtianity included.

It permits all types of atrocities to be commited against fellow human beings without remorse as the folks carrying out horrible acts against humanity comfort themselves with a notion their acts are sanctified by a "God".

Silly nuts the lot of ya.

Tony N · « **Reply #4 on:** June 25, 2005, 05:03:01 AM »

Quote from: Heretic

Greatest evil ever conceived? I would say organized religion. Xtianity included.

It permits all types of atrocities to be commited against fellow human beings without remorse as the folks carrying out horrible acts against humanity comfort themselves with a notion their acts are sanctified by a "God".

Silly nuts the lot of ya.

Yea, I know,
but even good will come out of the evil which has been, is and will be espoused by Islam and other religions.

The good that comes of all the murdering is that eventually the ones murdered will rise again out of death and stand before God alongside the murders and God is going to show that all the evil ever perpetrated is justified. It was all a necessary evil needed to bring about the salvation of the world.
But lest you think that it is O.K. to just go out and do harm, God is still going to bring every evil act into judgment. By "judgment" I mean "setting right." The murderer will no longer be a murderer once their victim is resurrected to immortality. Get it?

The greatest murder was the murder of Jesus Christ. His murderers will all be justified in what they did due to that act bringing about the salvation of all mankind.

Hey Geegee,
Um, I don't know what to say.

njc,
Thanks. For some reason I thought it was EWF.

nojc4me · « **Reply #5 on:** June 25, 2005, 10:17:28 PM »

TonyN said:

The greatest murder was the murder of Jesus Christ. His murderers will all be justified in what they did due to that act bringing about the salvation of all mankind.

Sorry, but you're wrong, because
A) that individual was a FICTIONAL CHARACTER (that is to say, he never lived) and so he never died, and so he was never killed.
B) even if he HAD lived, according to the Little Book of Lies, he was some kind of a god or something, and so he arranged his own death, so it was ritual suicide, not murder.

But according to you, he was completely justified in killing himself, so I for one would be justified in being glad for this world to be rid of him.
Now, if you would simply let him REST IN PEACE, we can all start to get along for a change.

Tony N · « **Reply #6 on:** June 26, 2005, 05:20:12 AM »

njc,
I see you are still as deluded as ever.

It is a waste of my time to even prove to you Christ lived, was given up to die and rose again from the dead. Why a waste? It's like trying to get a blind man to enjoy the light of a one million watt spot light.

Tony

Heretic · « **Reply #7 on:** June 26, 2005, 06:32:35 AM »

No Tony, 'tis you who is the deluded one. You call it a waste of time and that's true, only not for the reasons you think. It is because you can't 'prove' any of it. It's waste of time demonstrating to you why you are wrong.

It's like trying to convince a dung beetle to stop eating poop. You need it to survive. You can't handle cold harsh reality.

At least NoJC is 1/2 way there.

Tony N · « **Reply #8 on:** June 26, 2005, 12:37:25 PM »

Heretic,
I actually expect such a reaction from you. You and njc are in the same sunk boat, at the bottom of the ocean and still you paddle away as if nothing is wrong with your boat.

Zagzagel · « **Reply #9 on:** June 26, 2005, 02:59:41 PM »

LOL. Tony, you are so full of colorful humor. :D

But who can PROVE anything?

Now, some will jump into this question and bring up gravity, etc...but how does this prove or disprove a God???

I think...to be honest...we are ALL deluded in some depth. Only because we do not know ALL THINGS. Where does this leave all of us??

Tony N · « **Reply #10 on:** June 26, 2005, 03:08:52 PM »

Some of us have the boat without a hole in it but are paddling with imperfect paddles toward a given destination.

Some have boats that can't even float and some don't even have the boat to begin with.

No one is perfect but I do believe the Bible has the truth to get us to where we are going.

Heretic · « **Reply #11 on:** June 27, 2005, 07:35:04 AM »

And it's ok that you have such a belief Tony. Glad that it works for you. Why can't you just accept it doesn't work for everyone and everyone's beliefs (or lack thereof) are just as valid as yours?

My 'boat' is just fine. Been floating along better than it ever has, expecially since I tossed those 'paddles' overboard.

Can't you just be happy for me?

(Harry runs off to his room and slams the door behind him)

Tony N · « **Reply #12 on:** June 27, 2005, 08:17:33 AM »

Quote from: Heretic

And it's ok that you have such a belief Tony. Glad that it works for you. Why can't you just accept it doesn't work for everyone and everyone's beliefs (or lack thereof) are just as valid as yours?

My 'boat' is just fine. Been floating along better than it ever has, expecially since I tossed those 'paddles' overboard.

Can't you just be happy for me?

(Harry runs off to his room and slams the door behind him)

Heretic, did you write this?:
"No Tony, 'tis you who is the deluded one" to me? And you want me to be happy for you? Is that sort of like being happy for the guy who was eaten up by cancer because he didn't stub his toe?

Zagzagel · « **Reply #13 on:** June 27, 2005, 06:20:00 PM »

Quote

And it's ok that you have such a belief Tony. Glad that it works for you. Why can't you just accept it doesn't work for everyone and everyone's beliefs (or lack thereof) are just as valid as yours?

I look at it as "valid" for the moment. Why? Thats a secret! :D

Quote

My 'boat' is just fine. Been floating along better than it ever has, expecially since I tossed those 'paddles' overboard.

Fine for the moment, you mean? I ask because you state "better than ever"...

And what about the paddles? So you are not the one directing your own boat too, I see. :D

Heretic · « **Reply #14 on:** June 27, 2005, 10:51:56 PM »

Fine for the moment yes, just as yours maybe to you and Tony's may be to him. Who knows what tommorrow may bring. I tossed the oars overboard and got me a inboard, fuel injected V-6. So I'm directing my 'boat' just fine. :D C'mon geegee, let me in on your 'secret'. I hope it's more substaintal than what Tony gives me. That was stupid for me to say, OF COURSE it's going to be more substaintal. 8)

Tony, I have included if it works for you and makes you happy, that's wonderful. I am happy for you. In the same sense that I'm happy for the man who got whacked in the head with a brick and is now lying in a vegitative state because at least he's still breathing.

That reminds me of a joke I heard, I'm going to twist it to fit the trading of insults we're having here:

How does one create a TonyN? Whack a SntJohnny in the head with a brick!

Zagzagel · « **Reply #15 on:** June 27, 2005, 11:02:39 PM »

Heretic. I am now going to bed with some belly aching laughter. (loving your analogy about the boat thing) :D But what about my "secret"? Well, if I shared that, then it wouldn't be a secret..would it!? Okay..maybe later then! Till now, have a pleasant rest.

Tony N · « **Reply #16 on:** June 28, 2005, 06:08:44 AM »

Quote from: Heretic

How does one create a TonyN? Whack a SntJohnny in the head with a brick!

Hi Heretic,
I guess one has to define one's terms. What is a brick?

According to dictionary.com:

brick

n 1: rectangular block of clay baked by the sun or in a kiln; used as a building or paving material 2: a good fellow; helpful and trustworthy

I take brick, in this instance that you are using to be number 2 above. To whack a SntJohnny in the head with a good fellow; a helpful and trustworthy friend. After that is done, things can only get better.

Heretic,
How does non-belief work for you? By "work" do you mean that it solves all the mysteries of the world, why we are here, where we are all headed etc.? How does blackness work for you? You are in a fog, a dark dark fog. I used to be where you are now and it didn't work for me. Your super duper boat is only going in circles yet you think you are really getting somewhere. Sure, your boat can go a hundred miles per hour but you still end up in the same spot you began by going in circles. But I'm sure the ride is interesting seeing the same surroundings over and over and over again.

Heretic · « **Reply #17 on:** June 28, 2005, 07:39:49 AM »

It's not blackness nor fog. It's clear as a warm summer day. And my 'boat' has direction.

As for yours, I fail to see direction. I see your's going in circles staying in the same place.

Funny how we both see the other as the 'lost' one. You forget, I used to be in the same fog you are now, and it didn't work for me.

How does atheism 'work' for me? No it doesn't answer the meaningless philosophical questions you ask. However, it does make me self-reliant. It makes me self-accountable. It allows me to stand up and be proud of who I am and what I do. No, before you spout more defication out of your mouth, it is not 'false pride', it is justified pride. I am proud of myself and the things I do. You just don't know me.

But I know you all too well. You're not the first "TonyN" I've run across. And my 'boat' was also cast from that same mold as yours. The one with the permanent, non-adjustable 'right rudder'. I was able to fix mine, I drove it out of the fog and can now steer it in any direction I please.

You are me if I just sat in the boat going in circles in the fog, unable to go see what was beyond that fog bank. You may have stopped paddling and drifted out a bit, but the vastness frightened you, so you paddled your a$$ off back into the fog.

But hey, that's cool. Whatever you need to do to feel secure keep on doing it.

-------------------

geegee;

I look forward to your secret reveled. 8)

Tony N · « **Reply #18 on:** June 28, 2005, 11:06:05 AM »

As my pre-teen daughter says:

W_h_a_t_e_v_e_r_!

nojc4me · « **Reply #19 on:** June 28, 2005, 04:18:20 PM »

Tony,

What is happiness? Define it. (I fully intend to provide the BIBLICAL definition, but I want to see if I can understand the one you're using.)

The reason I ask is because I'd then like to know why you think a non-believer (especially an atheist) can't possibly be happy?

As for boats floating directionlessly... what are you talking about?
If one person has a deep need to believe in a god, or many gods, while another has no such need, and may or may not have a simular need to believe there is NO god or gods, how can you determine which has direction in his life, and why can't they both be either directionless or goal oriented and driven? If one person "needs" to understand math, while another has no desire nor ability in it, is one "drifting aimlessly"?

I don't think you're saying what we're hearing. Or maybe you're not saying it in a way that we could undstand you best. If you're trying to tell us anything that you think is important to you, and/or that you think should be important to us, you need to do a better job communicating. Communication isn't the responsibility of just the receiver(s).

Because as of right here, you aren't making any sense.

Author Topic: Evil, Huh! What is it good for?! Absolutely Somethin (Read 6443 times)