Cook continued
David's lineage can't be traced with certainty.
Yes, it can. Unless you want to admit you're the spawn of rape, illicit or casual sex, or are a foundling, you will HAVE to admit that your lineage is certain up to at least a point in history.
I can trace mine back at least 250 years.
And I'm a Gentile!
To me, my lineage is something I'd like to know more about, but it wouldn't change my life if I didn't know it.
To Jews, their lineage is very important. Torah makes it plain that it is by family association that the Land was to be divided, and only Kohenim could serve in the Temple. Only a descendant of Joseph could sit on his throne.
It is reasonable to suppose that they would set up some sort of system by which their lineages can be recalled or recited. [If you've ever seen the movie, "Enemy Mine," you'd see that this is not an original idea of mine.]
Judah HaNasi was descended from King David. He lived after the destruction of Jerusalem, so that would be after the Temple and its documents were destroyed, but he didn't somehow forget who his father was!
"David's lineage can't be traced with certainty"? BAH!
Oh, please don't take offense at this next part, but I think I get it. You mean YOU won't be convinced - without certain requirements like "written records" or something, right?
Like with the slogan "WWJD?" my answer is, "Who CARES?!"
You don't HAVE to be convinced that a man is the messiah in order for him to really be the messiah!
This is why Rabbis say we will know Moshiach by his deeds.
That's not how it should be looked at.
The reason we know the messiah by his deeds is because that's how you know he's the messiah.
A man is not the messiah just because he's descended from David HaMelekh.
A man's not the messiah just because he was born before the Temple was destroyed.
A man is not the messiah just because he crawled out of his grave.
Those don't make a messiah.
What he will do is delve deeply into the study of the Torah and observe its mitzvos as prescribed by the Written Law and the Oral Law; and he will compel all of Israel to walk in [the way of the Torah] and repair the breaches [in its observance]; and he will fight the wars of G-d - by this time, we may, with assurance, consider him Mashiach.
If he succeeds in the above, builds the [Beis Ha]Mikdash on its site, and gathers in the dispersed remnant of Israel, he is definitely the Mashiach.
Oh, and it will turn out that he is descended from David.
As for the deeds - John claims the "bad guy" will do all of this also with the exception of ending death.
And Buddhists expect Buddha to come back, or re-incarnate, or whatever.
What has that got to do with anything?
And how can death cease if people are being beheaded?
In the messianic era, disease and disorder will be abolished. That means, we recover and/or heal from disease and injury, we won't get sick again, and we won't suffer the ravages of age, so we live "forever" in health.
Why would the sinner have to be beheaded? Because otherwise, they won't die!
Why is it so important that they die? There are perhaps several reasons, but two I can think of right away: to show others that violating the law will not be tolerated, and so the the condemned person can pay for his sin here, rather than in heaven after he dies. If he accepts the judgement and submits to his execution, he can perhaps find absolution for his sin.
It's not only a punishment, but an opportunity.
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And if he does claim to be divine and the Rabbis suddenly agree with him..... Will you change your mind?
Why should I do that? Why would I want to?
Because it is a hallmark of Judaism that the messiah is not divine. If they change their minds about this fact how will that change your view of their authority?
They can't change their minds! It's a nonsensical question. I posted something on this subject in another thread. Or I meant to. Was something about the Catholic Church losing all authority after Vatican II. I'll look around.
Until then, I did find this:
The prohibition against questioning the words of the great
religious authorities extends to decrees and decisions that
one is convinced are incorrect. This is derived by the sages
from our verse: "you must not deviate ... either to the right
or left," which our sages interpret "Even if the sages rule that
the right is left or the left is right, one is obligated to accept
their word." This complete acceptance is predicated on our
belief that our sages are endowed with the spirit of God and
consequently not likely to err.
The assumption is, the Rabbis won't change their minds lightly, if at all.
Also, we are to follow the opinion of the majority. It's pretty hard to get the majority of Jews to agree on anything, so if they do, they must have a good reason to do so.
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When was that supposed to have happened?
I don't recall any warnings from God that the Jews will try to enforce Laws that the only THINK are Godly, just so that they can run the show.
That is because you do not consider the New Testament as coming from God.
What do you mean, "consider"? I KNOW it's not of Divine Origin! No document of Divine Origin would make as many mistakes, or cite as its foundation so many made up Scriptural passages as the new testament does!
It's not even internally consistent!
And what would it matter, anyway? There is no historical evidence that I know of that says that the Jews enforced made-up laws just to be in control. It's the kind of stuff you only hear from the most rabid of the anti-Semitic Conspiracy Nuts.
The New Testament does indeed make such a claim. But people know so little about what Judaism's expectation of the messiah - they can't not see what John was talking about.
Right! If they knew more about the Jewish messsiah, they'd also know that John didn't know anything about the same subject, so John's claim that jesus was the Jewish messiah (in his first outing as messiah) is groundless, just like his warnings about this mythical "anti-christ" you seem so afraid of.
The catholic church could never have known enough to fake that book!
I'd like to know why you think this is so.
I told you, all they needed to do was know just enough to make it look good.
The New Testament is a Jewish work.
No, it's not. The only part of it that even started out as a Jewish work is the Epistle of James, and that was heavily interpolated in order to make that Jewish letter seem to advocate belief in jesus. If you remove the first half of James 1:11 and the first verse of chapter two, it reads like a warning to the Jews of the Diaspora not to fall into the paganism of Pauline christianity. It extolls the Law, and contradicts the teachings of Paul, as can be seen in James 1:8, 1:13-14, 1:22, 1:27, 2:14-26, and 4:4. Incidently, chapter 4, verse 5 cites a "Scripture" that doesn't exist, like other new testament books do, but it's use is consistent, because, by claiming "the spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy," it seemingly seeks to refute the saying of jesus that, "the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." (Matt. 26:41)
I never knew it until I decided to convert to Judaism. During the process certian things changed my mind. Now that I know what I know about Judaism - it is clear that the writers of the New Testament were not catholic monks. It was written by Jewish men.
Still, no. It's a pagan document, mostly based on Mithraism.
The easier and more likely explanation is that you didn't understand the teachings as well as you think you did.
Prabably, you kept trying to understand it from your own perspective, rather from a Jewish one.
Constantly insisting on a Book, Chapter and Verse citation from the "Old Testament" rather than accepting what the Jews heard from their fathers is an example of a non-Jewish perspective.
Jews have been taught, "Honor your Father and your Mother." They've been told, "Ask your father and he will relate it to you; your elders (alternatively, your grandfathers) and they will tell you."
"Learn to do well, seek judgment." (Isaiah 1:17) One is not permitted to claim that since his own knowledge is vast, he has no need to seek the judgment of the sages.
So you listen to your Rabbis and I'll listen to mine!
Your "rabbis" don't agree with the majority. Therefore, they're wrong, and you should not follow them.
I mean, if you would please God. You might not want to. You might rather please yourself.
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If He splits the heavens - its too late.
"He" who? What possible harm could there be in "splitting the heavens"?
If your expected messiah is Christianity's antichrist/beast.
There's some kind of "prophecy" that he's supposed to break wind or something? What's this "splitting the heavens" stuff?
"splits the heavens" is just used to say he returns from the heavens for all to see.
Oh. Well, that's very different.
Nevermind.
You can look for the Rabbis to change their minds on a few things.
No, you can't.
One - the trees in Israel yielding fruit monthly and an end to death.
Why? These aren't supposed to be fulfilled until after the Beit Hamikdash is built, sacrifices re-instituted, and the Shekinah will fill the Sanctury. Why should they expect either to have been fulfilled before their appointed time(s)?
You can also look for mass murder of Gentiles who will not accept the Noachide laws and Jews who will not accept mosaic law.
A) It's not "murder" to put someone to death for refusing to obey God's Laws. And who more than a Jew (who has heard God's Laws from God) to know what God's Laws are?
B) There should come someone to do that SOON!
God's Laws were meant to be obeyed. Just ask Him! It would be a good thing if we kept them. Just ask Him.
In addition to that it is suggested that he may claim to be divine.
If he were to do that, it would be apparent he wasn't the messiah, and, at the next Festival when all Israel would be gathered in Jerusalem, he would be killed as a false prophet who seeks to lead Israel astray to worship a god other than HaShem.
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Topic: Hundreds of prophecies fulfilled? (Read 47679 times)