Not to answer for Iron...
However, you guys STILL don't get what we (Mormons) believe.  Jesus did pay the price for all sins that IS what Mormons believe and always will beleive.

Maybe a mock question scenario will help clairfy misunderstandings.

Question:  Who or what did he pay that price to?
Short answer:  Justice

Question:  Can a person, himself, pay for his own sins?
Short answer:  No, we cannot pay justice because we are not capable of such a thing. (This is in line with Paul's teachings.)

Question:  So why do Mormons believe in "conditional" exaltation?
Short answer:  People do not follow commandments to satisfy Justice (which was already paid).  Rather to show faith in Jesus Christ, which he requires.  Only those with demonstrated faith will continue to be in God's presence.  (This is in line with John's teachings).

IronRod asked:
I will ask you to what are you saved?  

I am saved to/for or literally "into life eonian" which is a gracious (unearned) gift not gotten by doing any commandments but due to God being gracious to me and Him giving me the grace to be believing not by works but by grace.

Tit 1:2 in expectation of life eonian, which God, Who does not lie, promises before times eonian,

Rom 6:23 For the ration of Sin is death, yet the gracious gift of God is life eonian, in Christ Jesus, our Lord."

I really think you LDS people need to really see what Paul wrote to the Galatians. They originally got the spirit by faith and then got corrupted into thinking that they could make their salvation sure by works. They fell out of grace.

Tony

I really think you LDS people need to really see what Paul wrote to the Galatians.

Saw it, read it and now I will quote from it.

Gal. 6:
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
[/quote]


Valerie, Valerie, Valerie, my my my, I wonder why you ripped that passage out of context. Here is the context:

Gal 6:6-9  "Now let him who is being instructed in the word be contributing to him who is instructing, in all good things.  (7)  Be not decived, God is not to be sneered at, for whatsoever a man may be sowing, this shall he be reaping also,  (8)  for he who is sowing for his own flesh, from the flesh shall be reaping corruption, yet he who is sowing for the spirit, from the spirit shall be reaping life eonian.  (9)  Now we may not be despondent in ideal doing, for in due season we shall be reaping, if we do not faint."

The context is not how one can get eternal life. But it is about contributing to those who are instructing in the Word. This contributing is alot like sowing and reaping. It is a figure of speech. Paul isn't saying that if you put ten percent of your earnings in the collection each Sunday you will ensure that you go to heaven. Paul is against a works based salvation for if one can literally get eonian life by works of the Mosaic law of tithing (which he is dead set against in the first place and is the very reason why he is writing to the Galatians in the first place!) he just made this clear in Galatians 2:16 and 3:10, then he has something to boast in. And in Romans 3:27,28 Paul wrote this:

Rom 3:27-28  Where, then, is boasting? It is debarred! Through what law?  (28)  Of works? No! But through faith's law. For we are reckoning a man to be justified by faith apart from works of law.

No, Valerie, Galatians 6:6-9 is not about how one gets saved by the Mosaic law of tithing. They sow (figuratively) by gleefully giving to support those who are instructing and they figuratively in due season[/i] which means while one is alive in this lifetime, reap the kine of life that is pertaining to the eons to come which Paul calls "life eonian." That future life is one of giving, one of love.

If you feel you can gain eonian life by doing the tithing then boasting is not excluded.

Valerie quoted:
Did you happen to read anything else by Paul, Tony?

Rom. 2:
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

You know what I think Tony?  I don't think you have even read the Bible.  That is the only explanation for your lack of understanding.

Tony's reply:
The above quote and explanation by you just proves you and LDS are deceived, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God if that passage is truly the stance of the LDS "church."

First of all, Paul is not proving how one can get saved without having to believe in Christ. Nor is Paul writing about how one can get saved after one believes in Christ in the passages you quoted in Romans. Rather, Paul is proving from Romans 1:18-3:20 that not one is righteous. All sin and are wanting of the glory of God. Paul is proving that all mankind are in need of justification and salvation beginning in Romans 3:21 onward.

Paul is showing in the verses you quoted that God is a just judge and He will be paying each human in accord with their acts. If there actually is one human He finds that, by his acts (apart from Christ) merits salvation, He is just and will give it to that person. Is there such a person? No. Paul shows that all sin. Not ONE is just, no, not even one, Valerie.

So I'm sorry to have to inform you, Valerie, that even the LDS church will not be able to sneak in through the back door by a works based religion.

So what really came out of Christ's death? Did He just make salvation a possibility or did He actually accomplishing something for all mankind like Adam did only greater?

Tony

Oddly enough, we are not the only people on the planet who believe that faith is demonstrated through works.  Whether you call it "showing gratitude" or not it is still the same thing.

Tony's reply:
Numbers (the amount of groups that do or believe a certain way does not prove the rightness thereof.

Valerie wrote:
Why do people go to church?  Why do they pray?  Why do they go to a priest for forgiveness?  Why do people feel guilty?  Why, why, why?  Because innately they KNOW that Jesus Christ commanded them to do it and that it IS tied to their remaining in his presence.  There are those, such as yourself that deny it, but to do so is to deny that there is sin.  To deny sin you deny the need for a saviour.  Which gets back to your original question.  If you deny that there is sin in the world then the atonement was for nothing.  Jesus Christ accomplished nothing for mankind if they reject the premise of his mission, to save mankind from sin.

Tony's reply:
If they do "things" such as you suggest after salvation, to get a better standing with God, then they are incorrect in their understanding of the evangel to the nations.

We go to church to have fellowship and worship God.

We pray, not to twist God's arm but to try to be in harmony with His will.

Going to a priest for forgiveness is proof that they are out of line with this current administration of grace.

People feel guilty because they don't have a proper understanding that Christ has died for all their sins. They don't realize they are "complet in Christ" and don't realize that "there is no condemnation."

You ask "Why, why why?" It is not because Jesus commanded them to do it. It is because they are deceived by taking what was meant for the Circumcision and apply it to those of the nations.

http://www.saviour-of-all.org

I have to get back to this before I forget and it is lost in the thread...

Paul is showing in the verses you quoted that God is a just judge and He will be paying each human in accord with their acts. If there actually is one human He finds that, by his acts (apart from Christ) merits salvation, He is just and will give it to that person.

The verses in question say thus...
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

I don't see how you come to that Tony.  In fact I think your interpretation is  

Of course I believe in sin. But if one dwells upon their failings rather then upon what Christ has done, then one never attains to a "realization of the truth" that \'there is now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus."

How can there be sin if there is no condemnation?  What you are saying here, is that there is no sin for one who is in Jesus Christ.  That should go over well with suicide bombers.  Ah, but then you might say that they are not truly "in" Christ because their actions do not coincide with one who is "in" Christ.  Then you see, you are back at the works demonstrating faith in Christ.  Which gets back to the intrinsic notion, and scripture, that Christ requires us to keep his commandments if we love him.  Any way you want to put it, Tony, it is still faith demonstrated by works.

Now you tell me, Val, how you think there is going to be anyone of humanity to say they earned glory, honor, incorruption, life eonian.

I don't, and Mormons don't.  This is exactly what I have been trying to explain to you.  We cannot on our own earn glory.  It requires the atonement of Jesus Christ AND keeping his commandments.  Ironrod said it pretty well.